26m sailing performance

[mad dog]

Thanks contributors,
I think I've heard what I needed to hear and as I said at the start - I have no illusions about the 26M's sailing prowess.I just needed a bit more info beyond what I had read up until recently. But there clearly are bigger reasons for choosing the boat and I am aware of those. Having said that, the sailing experience it offers looks like being enjoyable.

Thanks,

Mad dog

[Mac26Mpaul]

Hey Mad dog

That Seawind is a very different boat!

I guestimate about 45 degrees with the jib, with the genny, not better than 50, I should imagine. This is of course no high performance sailing craft and noone would buy one if it was ALL about the sailing, but it is a very good protected water cruising boat and does sail a lot better than what a lot of the nonsense on the net would have one believe.

I highly recommend you find a way to spend some time on one so you know exactly what you are buying. If you cant find anyone up there to spend some time with, it would be worth flying to a dealer that does sail days.

My personal thoughts on buying new are, that I would not do it unless you were at least buying something like Camerons Whitsunday cruising package, and even then there will be lots of toys you will want to buy for the boat.
They do come pretty basic (like all trailer sailers) and sometimes its better to find a nearly new one that has been set up with all the great stuff (autopilots, fridges, Solar panels, biminis, Stereos, TVs, sail/helm/bimini covers etc etc etc.... You can save a fortune that way...

[mad dog]

Thanks Mac26mPaul,

Couldn't agree with you more and yes - I have looked favourably at Cameron's Whitsunday package and I am very picky about what I want on board which makes it difficult to find a near new one that fits the bill.
I can think of worse things to do than visit Cameron who I gather does arrange trial sails so your advice on this is also on the money. Just need to plan a visit.

Thanks,

Mad dog

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

Yea, thats a good point guys, don't fantasize too much...ie, the windex on the top of the mast is apparent wind, and not only that, but is the angle exactly 30 degrees and is it totally symmetric (ie, same on both sides). I've never raced other Mac boats (although I'm certainly willing if any of you are in my area) and I've heard that the 26M sails better than the 26X but there are only a couple ways that I consider statements about true "pointing" to be truly accurate...one if you are racing other boats and you can beat them upwind, and two if you are really making that kind of headway - ie use a GPS track for very honest results. Take an upwind beat on your Mac (with no currents) and record the track, then take that puppy and measure the angle between your port and starboard tacks and cut it in half. Me thinks I'll buy you a beer if that double angle is anything less than 80...sorry guys, but 30 degree pointing in a Mac sounds a bit like a pipe dream to me.

Again, I can't really speak for an M boat...But like someone else said, the Mac powersailor is the true king of all compromises boat...but pointing is the one thing she does not do very well...the other 20 things, she does much better than virtually all other sailboats. So, I love mine, am in my 10th year of ownership and don't plan to sell her ever. And that comes from someone who has owned dozens of boats and used to sell them every 2-5 years. And btw, if your course is close to ddw and you put her in a broad reach "crab" with the board up, she can beat the pants off many traditionally faster sailboats that have more of a built in keel...so, what you lose upwind, you can gain back downwind!

[TheDart]

I sail wil my plotter/depth sounder on all the time, and I am also a bit suprised that there is little data around about performancece on this site.I don't eactly try to push the boat but have a reasonable amount of experience in a variety of boats from windsurfers and performance cats, to lasers, flying 15s and cruisers. With the genoa, i am overpowered above 12knots but am frequently out in winds upto 20knots. In a bit of a sea I find it better to sail than motor (you bob like a cork but the prop doesn't scares everyone when it pops out on waves!)

On the weekend I was doing about 3 knots in 10 knots and struggling to get 45 degrees true wind with the genoa. The 'slot' looked wrong with the foot of the genoa way to full.
Down wind in about 8 knots I was getting about 3.6knots sailing high enough to keep the genoa full.

However performance doesn't appear to improve much with wind speed as the fastest I have been is 7knots (with wind) sailing down wind in about 25 knots (with reefed main and partially furled genoa) The boat appeared to started to get speed wobbles and hum above 6.5knots with the rudders feeling light. I was bearing away in the gusts to stay in control. A big issue here is that you can't depower the main once the sail is resting on the side stays! Upwind I would still be averaging about 3knots! due to the windage of the hull.

In about 15knots and with a reefed main and partially furled genoa the boat sits nicely at about 4 knots on a 90 degree reach. You could probably go faster with someone constantly working the main and genoa, but i doubt more than 5knots.

Although i rarely sail the mac into the wind (it isn't really the purpose of the boat), sea conditions have a very big impact on performance because the boat is so light. So if there are waves, you need to sail lower to stop stalling on waves.

hope this helps and would love someone to tell me if my performance is way off. My crew is three children under six and a novice wife so I'm not exactly pushing it!

[dlandersson]

The Dart,

My performance is similar - except that I LOVE sailing into the wind 45-90 degrees. There's something cool about watching the Chicago skyline appear on the horizon.

On the weekend I was doing about 3 knots in 10 knots and struggling to get 45 degrees true wind with the genoa. The 'slot' looked wrong with the foot of the genoa way to full.
Down wind in about 8 knots I was getting about 3.6knots sailing high enough to keep the genoa full.

[bscott]

I sail wil my plotter/depth sounder on all the time, and I am also a bit suprised that there is little data around about performancece on this site.I don't eactly try to push the boat but have a reasonable amount of experience in a variety of boats from windsurfers and performance cats, to lasers, flying 15s and cruisers. With the genoa, i am overpowered above 12knots but am frequently out in winds upto 20knots. In a bit of a sea I find it better to sail than motor (you bob like a cork but the prop doesn't scares everyone when it pops out on waves!)

On the weekend I was doing about 3 knots in 10 knots and struggling to get 45 degrees true wind with the genoa. The 'slot' looked wrong with the foot of the genoa way to full.
Down wind in about 8 knots I was getting about 3.6knots sailing high enough to keep the genoa full.

However performance doesn't appear to improve much with wind speed as the fastest I have been is 7knots (with wind) sailing down wind in about 25 knots (with reefed main and partially furled genoa) The boat appeared to started to get speed wobbles and hum above 6.5knots with the rudders feeling light. I was bearing away in the gusts to stay in control. A big issue here is that you can't depower the main once the sail is resting on the side stays! Upwind I would still be averaging about 3knots! due to the windage of the hull.

In about 15knots and with a reefed main and partially furled genoa the boat sits nicely at about 4 knots on a 90 degree reach. You could probably go faster with someone constantly working the main and genoa, but i doubt more than 5knots.

Although i rarely sail the mac into the wind (it isn't really the purpose of the boat), sea conditions have a very big impact on performance because the boat is so light. So if there are waves, you need to sail lower to stop stalling on waves.

hope this helps and would love someone to tell me if my performance is way off. My crew is three children under six and a novice wife so I'm not exactly pushing it!

I rarely sail on deep reaches or ddw because of the swept back spreader interference with easing the main so I gyb on a beam reach most of the time. These boats perform much better with a 110 jib than a 150 genny once the wind exceeds 10 knts. I have a young grand child crew and we started off motoring in low wind and sailing double reefed from the dock. It has taken awhile but now (oldest is now 14, youngest is 9 with one in the middle--started sailing with them 4 yrs ago) we now graduated to sailing single reefed only because Grammy "demands it to be so". Sailing with a young crew takes patience and soon they will want to be handling the sails and see the rail hit 30 degs.--Grammy's limit is 25, mine is 35 but we try to maintain 20 degs.

Bob

[dlandersson]

Okay, my kids (they like to look out the forward hatch) require that my 150 Genoa be uses in a sorta Jib configuration (just a bit out so they can see under it). Doesn't this compare to a regular Jib?

These boats perform much better with a 110 jib than a 150 genny once the wind exceeds 10 knts. I have a young grand child crew and we started off motoring in low wind and sailing double reefed from the dock. It has taken awhile but now (oldest is now 14, youngest is 9 with one in the middle--started sailing with them 4 yrs ago) we now graduated to sailing single reefed only because Grammy "demands it to be so". Sailing with a young crew takes patience and soon they will want to be handling the sails and see the rail hit 30 degs.--Grammy's limit is 25, mine is 35 but we try to maintain 20 degs.

Bob

[bscott]

If you bring the sheets inboard of the shrouds of a partially reefed 150 it will work OK but not efficient as the rolled up jenny becomes baggy with disturbed wind flow over the sail which brings the CE higher up the mast = more heeling, less drive, less pointing. One way to mostly cure this is to sew in luff pads to reduce the bag. With kids on board, you will compromise sailing efficiency vs happy kids/wife = happy sailing

Bob

[dlandersson]

I was going to say "happy family" = "happy sailing"

If you bring the sheets inboard of the shrouds of a partially reefed 150 it will work OK but not efficient as the rolled up jenny becomes baggy with disturbed wind flow over the sail which brings the CE higher up the mast = more heeling, less drive, less pointing. One way to mostly cure this is to sew in luff pads to reduce the bag. With kids on board, you will compromise sailing efficiency vs happy kids/wife = happy sailing

Bob

[bscott]

I was going to say "happy family" = "happy sailing"

YES, better still

Bob

If you bring the sheets inboard of the shrouds of a partially reefed 150 it will work OK but not efficient as the rolled up jenny becomes baggy with disturbed wind flow over the sail which brings the CE higher up the mast = more heeling, less drive, less pointing. One way to mostly cure this is to sew in luff pads to reduce the bag. With kids on board, you will compromise sailing efficiency vs happy kids/wife = happy sailing

Bob

[mad dog]

Thanks again contributors - I have learned a lot and can't help but think that the genoa is not the best choice of headsail under most conditions. One contributor pointed out how well the boat moves and steers just under the main which adds further weight to this view. So it sounds like a good jib is the best supplement to the main for most conditions. Could it be possible that the geneo(150), while adding some power of its own, actually reduces the mainsail's efficiency instead of improving it?

Mad dog

[Whipsyjac]

Check out BWY sail buying guide. They have Jib vs Genoa recommendations worked out by Mac model vs average wind speed in your sailing area. I believe the trade off favors Jib for around 7knot avg winds.(more wind=smaller sail) The trade off for is closer to 9knots and above, which is why based on my experience this summer I bought a new 150 from JudyB.

Willy

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

The Genny works fine in a reach, and will beat the 100 jib in most normal sailing conditions (ie. under 15 knots). Its when you are beating upwind when the jib (sheeted inside the shrouds) beats the pants off of the genny. In light wind, you might still go faster than the jib if you bare off a bit...but it will never point has high as the jib configuration. The main will lose some of its drive due to the airflow off of the headsail but that is not relevant because the boat is being driven much more by the headsail. Ie, you are still going to go quite a bit faster with the headsail, even if it is disrupting the flow on the main somewhat.

[dlandersson]

I dunno...especially when single-handing, I'll just put the 150% Genoa out and chill. It is my single best sail.

Thanks again contributors - I have learned a lot and can't help but think that the genoa is not the best choice of headsail under most conditions. One contributor pointed out how well the boat moves and steers just under the main which adds further weight to this view. So it sounds like a good jib is the best supplement to the main for most conditions. Could it be possible that the geneo(150), while adding some power of its own, actually reduces the mainsail's efficiency instead of improving it?

Mad dog