Hurricane Preparedness

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Divecoz
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Hurricane Preparedness

Post by Divecoz »

Hello Gentlemen; Yes its been awhile since I have posted. Its all because I have been so dang busy remodeling this house. But I will be all done in just a few more months...
In The Next 10 days or so they will be installing my new seawall and boat lift. The lift will be the standard 10,000 lbs 4 post lift. Its 4 10" Treated post set deep into the canal bottom, on solid rock. I have a few questions.
1. Should I have them set the stringers as they do on the trailer ?
2. Or should I have them set more inboard / closer to the center line?
3. In The event of a Bad storm, should I fill the ballast or leave it empty?
I have some very heavy duty 3" commercial ratchet straps that I will strap the boat to the lift with. I will pull The other boat a Center Console out and while its on its trailer I will strap it to the ground, using 4 of those 4 foot long , screw anchors and 4 of those large straps. I would rather not have to try and get both of the boats out of the water and most here especially the bigger boats leave them on the lift. Suggestions? Any Ideas? Any Math Geometry Physics Solutions??
JSYK.. WE LOVE Living in SWF! 8) Port Charlotte Fla. is all we hoped it would be, and even more....
Richard/Divecoz
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Russ
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Re: Hurricane Preparedness

Post by Russ »

Glad to see you are settling in and back online.

As for stringers, I'll let the more mechanical minded chime in, but I would NOT think more inboard is correct.

Bad storm: Seems like ballast in would give you more mass against wind forces. The title of the thread is hurricane preparedness, and in those conditions and storm surge and all, I'd opt to haul the boat and drive it as far inland and high as possible. Then get a hotel room. After superstorm Sandy floated my dad's Hunter off it's jack stands into a pile of boats and power lines, I am a firm believer in higher ground.
You get some big t-storms down there, I'd probably keep the mast down in T-storm season.. Others might say it' snot good to keep water in ballast tank while on the hoist, but in my opinion, I would most definitely do so. These boats are very light and have lots of freeboard.
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mastreb
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Re: Hurricane Preparedness

Post by mastreb »

The dynamics are very hard to predict because the forces vary dramatically at different wind-speeds and directions, and a lot depends on the elasticity of your straps and the bend modulus of the poles.

Having never seen a privately owned boat lift, I may not understand exactly how they operate. Are they the same as commercial lifts, where you've got belly straps that the boat floats into and which then lift the boat by being winched at the top of each of four poles?

If that's the case, probably your best bet would be to put very secure cleats at a low point on the poles and use dock-lines from the boat's dock-line cleats to the cleats on the poles. With docklines in place, then lift (carefully!) until the lift strains against the dock-lines. This puts the straps and the dock-lines under tension in opposition to one another. This tension will keep the boat securely in place with the only variables being the elasticity of the dock-lines and straps under tension and the structural rigidity of the lift.

Make sense?

Matt
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Divecoz
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Re: Hurricane Preparedness

Post by Divecoz »

I am of the thought, that the more weight the better?.. Unless of coarse, it all gets to..... swinging and swaying.. :o
Private boat lifts aka down here anyways, are for the most part. 4 - 10" = 12" Telephone poles (?) Sunk as deeply as is required for the size / weight capacity of the lift. Then there are 2 electric motors one front, one back and with the use of SS Cables they carry /haul a cradle of sorts, up and down between the post. " Kind Of Like" lifting your boat on its trailer without the wheel and fenders.
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Re: Hurricane Preparedness

Post by moondancer »

Rich how high off the water is the final storage position? What is the record storm surge in your area so far? Might go higher with the crazy weather patterns we have know due to the non existing global warming. I don't know about strapping it down and have high wave action against our boats. It seems it might do better being able to move a bit. This is my first boat and my first night on the water in it about 4 years ago the wife and I were tied to a dock in Allen Harbor RI and it 50kn. winds we were heeling 20 degrees each way. That gave me some confidence because the boat held together and we stayed dry. In case of storm I beleve I would drop mast and try and reduce any windage.
Good luck and congratulations on your new place. Mike
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Re: Hurricane Preparedness

Post by Catigale »

Dive - you do have to accept that if its a Cat 5, all this is for nought. If you go to National Geographic, you can see that Hurricane Andrew moved a 36000 pound sailboat a couple miles inland...over land. I suspect that will make a Mac go airborne. Colonel King could probably help you fly it, if you can coax him out of retirement.
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Re: Hurricane Preparedness

Post by drams_1999 »

I am a structural engineer in Miami and design for wind and hydrostatic pressure on an everyday basis.
My personal opinion regarding hurricanes is as follows:
I live inland and my boat is in the yard on a trailer.
Category 1: I don’t do anything to prepare other than bring in anything loose from outside.
Category 2: I do the Category 1 stuff and put up my shutters.
Category 3: I do all the Category 1 & 2 stuff, stock up on food, supplies, batteries, water, etc and think about getting a generator.
Weak Category 4: All of Category 1,2,& 3. Make sure all my insurance bills are paid for the house, car, and boat. Fill 30 gallons water tank on boat, let some air out of trailer tires. (my boat is kept on the trailer in the yard). Remove the canvas top and secure all lines below. Watch the forecast to make sure it doesn’t become a strong Cat 4 or Cat 5. Hook up the truck to the boat trailer to help hold things down.
Strong Category 4 to Category 5: Prepare everything to be left behind, bring family, truck, & boat (along with essentials) north to escape the storm. Come back when it is safe to do so.
Now to your question (forgive me if I sound like a college professor....)
First, as suggested, you need to know how high of a storm surge you should expect. I would add another foot to the highest recorded surge to try and be sure you’ll be ok.
Then I would check to see if my lift can go high enough to lift the boat completely above that elevation. If not, forget about using the lift. The boat will float and probably damage or severely damage your lift if the waves start pushing the boat as the boat tries to float off, regardless of how well it is strapped down. The straps will start pulling up and buoyancy will win the war somewhere, whether it’s the strap, the attachment, the member attached to, even the piles can lift off the seabed if your boat’s buoyancy exceeds the tensile capacity of the piles (although most likely something else will break before that happens)
Assuming your lift is high enough, you need to be sure it can resist the lateral wind forces on the boat when lifted up high. Yes, wider supports are more stable than narrower ones. Assuming the lift can take the lateral and uplift loads (our boats have a lot of windage), then it becomes a matter of adequately strapping the boat down. Most likely the lift is not designed to resist uplift, but only gravity. You may want to check with the lift manufacturer for recommendations during storms.
For the purpose of armchair engineering, I would suggest using a wind load of about 75 psf on the boat lateral, and an uplift of about 60 psf. You can reduce the uplift by taking into account the weight of the boat. These loads would act simultaneously in the lateral and vertical direction, to account for winds, and are based on loads calculated for south Florida using modern building codes (which should be applicable to the lift).
This is all easier said than done. You want to check every component of the load path, especially the connections of the members. The load path would be roughly from wind to boat, boat to lift, through the lift members (beams/girders/posts/etc) to foundation. Keep in mind the boat will try to overturn, and to slide. You need to resist both. I would want a safety factor of at least 1.2 for all components if it was my boat. Building Code would require a safety factor of 1.6 for wind, which is a lot more, for buildings.
As stated before, I wouldn’t worry too much about CAT 1 or 2 storms, as long as you don’t get a surge. Strap it as best you can and hope for the best. CAT 3 is where I start to worry, and forget about strong CAT 4 or 5. All bets are off when you get there.
If I had a boat on a lift, I would try and find a safe place for it in CAT 3 storm or above.
That’s the opinion of your friendly neighborhood structural engineer, anyway. Good luck....let’s hope we never find ourselves driving up toward GA on I-95 or I-75 to escape one of these things.


8)
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seahouse
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Re: Hurricane Preparedness

Post by seahouse »

Hey drams_1999- some good points! 8)

I'm curious about the logic of lowering the air pressure on the trailer tires. Maybe to lower its profile to the wind slightly?

It makes you unable to safely move the trailer in a hurry if you had to without having to add air again. Plus they would be less capable of safely carrying the extra weight of water in the ballast, if you chose to add some before a high-wind storm.

Hey Dive! Sounds like you're setting yourself up nicely there. 8)

Another factor to consider is that it matters as much what your neighbours choose to do with regard to securing their boats. Theirs might become great battering rams against your appropriatly-secured boat.

Seems that having a location to tow to chosen ahead of time for its elevation (topographic map, but FL is pretty flat I gather) and protection would be the best last line of defence. It's where you might want yourself(ves) to be too.

- Brian. :wink:
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Re: Hurricane Preparedness

Post by Catigale »

You can't really dodge a hurricane by avoiding its path. By the time you know it's track to within 100 miles, its too late to be on the roads, and certainly be on the roads towing a boat.

Moving a state away 4-5 days before landfall is a viable strategy but obviously involves a lot more logistics,
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Re: Hurricane Preparedness

Post by Divecoz »

Thank You Gentlemen One and All. Yes I am really just most concerned with say a strong cat 3 maybe a weak cat 4 .. At some point all bets are off. I have seen with Wilma / Cozumel boats sunk by other boats..Just plain out of your hands.. Moving both boats for me is out of the question. As Cat Mentioned even getting myself out of town less than several days in advance is, in reality pretty much out of the question.
From people/neighbors, I have been talking to down here, I have learned this:
Evacuation is a Nightmare!!
Tie it down close it up pray for the best.
After talking with the Boat Lift Installer we will have 2x12's for the bunks.. I will in the event of storm, install 2 lateral - 1-5/8" Uni-Strut sway braces from the seawall to the lift structure. I will fill the ballast. The lift is rated for 10,000 + pounds. I will as of Sunday , own as well a 23' Seaswirl Walk-around.
My brother and others here assure me, the boat ramps are a mad house before a big storm and can take all day to get your boat out. That Boat has a dual axle trailer so I will if possible just pull it out of the water a few days before hand .. The Ramp is just minutes away from my house.. and its no charge..
I found the land anchors / screws..... at both Lowes and Home Depot. The Walk-around has a 6'x8' Hard Cover T -Top.. everyone so far , says I am just screwed!! That's a real issue and a total PITA to remove the hard top. I will park it on the side of the garage ( The House is block built, hip roof ) thats as good as it gets for down here.
Again Thanks to all who contributed..
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Re: Hurricane Preparedness

Post by drams_1999 »

Yes, you would need to leave at least the day before if at all.

The answer to the question regarding tire pressures.....

The idea is similar to when you go offroading with a 4WD. Reduce the tire pressure so that the tire is less inflated than normal but not flat. This is to increase traction with the ground. I would only do this if I am sure that there is no way I am taking the boat anywhere for the duration.

Alot of good ideas and suggestions.....nice thread!

:)
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Re: Hurricane Preparedness

Post by Russ »

Two concerns, wind and tidal surge.

My dads boat floated off the jack stands with every other boat in the yard. IF we could have gotten it 6 on feet higher ground that wouldn't have happened. So if a storm is coming, I would drive your Mac to higher ground and park it there and fill the ballast with water, remove mast and say a prayer and make sure your insurance is paid up. It will probably stay put. BTW, did your premiums go up when you moved to the coast?

In a Cat 4-5, wind might be your enemy. Parking higher and in the wind shade of a building MAY help if you can predict the wind direction. Also if you can point it into the direction of the wind it might help spill wind better than broadside.

Just some ideas.
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Re: Hurricane Preparedness

Post by Catigale »

I would just tie the boat down with CAT 5 cable, available at radio shack of course
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Re: Hurricane Preparedness

Post by DaveB »

Sorry so late on this Post.
I have Build Custom Homes on Gulf Access waters in Cape Coral for 17 years.(City Strutual Building Inspector for a Year. State Cert.)
Have Built 2 personal Homes on Gulf Access with 10.000 Boat lifts.
There are two systems in driving the pilings down. One is air jet, other in Hydrolic pounding and later far exceeds the Air Jet.
Mine installed with air jets started to just pull the outward piles aft and out after 1 year on a 100 ft. wide canal.
I always advised my Customers to get Pile drivin Poles.
Bed Rock Coral is just below the surface and air jets only rest on top. Big cross braceing helps.
My boat weighed 2800 lb power.
Always have them test the bedrock before you install posts.
I also had my Bayliner 25 with flybridge that weighed about 4500 lbs emty on the lift at a newer home I built with a outside 3 ft deck with pilings and never had a problem.
It went thru a no name storm that packed 75 mph winds with higher gusts and lift held up great on a 200 ft. wide main canal.
Dave
Divecoz wrote:Hello Gentlemen; Yes its been awhile since I have posted. Its all because I have been so dang busy remodeling this house. But I will be all done in just a few more months...
In The Next 10 days or so they will be installing my new seawall and boat lift. The lift will be the standard 10,000 lbs 4 post lift. Its 4 10" Treated post set deep into the canal bottom, on solid rock. I have a few questions.
1. Should I have them set the stringers as they do on the trailer ?
2. Or should I have them set more inboard / closer to the center line?
3. In The event of a Bad storm, should I fill the ballast or leave it empty?
I have some very heavy duty 3" commercial ratchet straps that I will strap the boat to the lift with. I will pull The other boat a Center Console out and while its on its trailer I will strap it to the ground, using 4 of those 4 foot long , screw anchors and 4 of those large straps. I would rather not have to try and get both of the boats out of the water and most here especially the bigger boats leave them on the lift. Suggestions? Any Ideas? Any Math Geometry Physics Solutions??
JSYK.. WE LOVE Living in SWF! 8) Port Charlotte Fla. is all we hoped it would be, and even more....
Richard/Divecoz
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Russ
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Re: Hurricane Preparedness

Post by Russ »

Catigale wrote:I would just tie the boat down with CAT 5 cable, available at radio shack of course
Nah, I'd upgrade to full CAT 6 if I was gonna do it.
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