Wind and Waves

[tlgibson97]

I tried a search and didnt come up with what I was looking for so I am sorry if I am repeating something already asked.

Last weekend I took my family out to Savannah, GA to sail on the coast for the first time. Probably not the smartest thing to do with my general inexperience with sailing and no experience being on ocean water. I didn't know what to expect and figured we'd be fince since we wouldn't be going out far. I was mistaken. The winds were forecast 10-12 from the South. That seemed to be acceptable to me. I felt like we would be able to travel well. Well, we got out and I would guess the the winds were at least 15 to 20. Take it for what it's worth but I would say a solid Force 5 conditions. Some waves were pretty big, at least 5-8ft. To make a long story short, things got pretty hairy. I made the call to turn around and go back which got even hairier but we made it back alive with only a couple busted rudder brackets from either hitting the bottom or from being pushed sideways down a swell, who knows at this point.

My question to everyone is what is the worst conditions you are comfortable sailing your mac's in? What is the highest wind and waves can be before you call it off?

My problem was I had a plan for the weekend. The plan relied on us being in certain places at certain times and I didn't have a backup in case the weather was too bad. I kick myself because I didn't turn back immediately when I saw the height of the waves and my boat paid the price. I do pat myself on the back for recognizing that I was only putting ourselves in more danger and turning around within a couple miles. At least I have sme experience and will know what to expect next time.

We have signed up to take the ASA Basic Keelboat classes and will probably take the coastal cruising classes too before we head back out there.

[Russ]

Getting back without major incident is the most important thing. You figured that out and did the right thing. You also learned that the best plans can be changed with weather. Good lesson. I'm sure you also learned to take weather seriously.

You may need to learn how to deal with situations that are not planned. I am a big proponent of education. You are on track there.
I suggest a USPS course. They are offered dirt cheap (generally cost of materials) because they are all volunteers. You may ask these kinds of questions with these experienced boaters in your area.
http://www.usps.org/cgi-bin-nat/eddept/cfind.cgi

I do NOT enjoy wind and waves. Not why I go out on the boat. Some adrenaline junkies look for that stuff. I generally have backup plans when weather is bad. Either stay home, or head for a protected cove to enjoy what we can of it. Sailing in that junk, again, some will reef and run with it. Not me, especially with the family onboard. I don't want to scare them out of boating. When the wind reaches those conditions you experienced, I yank down the sails and motor to someplace quiet.

So, as small boaters we have to be flexible in our plans. Be willing to sit it out or even go home. However, we also need to be prepared in case we are caught out without a choice and have to get back. Learn how to handle your boat in poor conditions. How to have crew ready also. How to be ready to drop anchor in a hurry, how to call for help when it gets really ugly.

In our part of the country, we have to constantly watch for T-Storms. Their winds can really create dangerous situations.

Hopefully you will also learn the weather patterns and how to trust forecasts. Then you will go out with confidence and have fun for you and crew. Many boats are put up for sale because of one bad weather experience. Get back out there and enjoy the boat.

--Russ

[yukonbob]

It really depends on the wave frequency. Long swell (as long as its not breaking or waves on the swell) then six to eight foot is a nice sailing if your stomach can handle it. Stacked three and four footers can be bery incomfortable. We usually have to sail back to our port from another town down the coast almost every weekend in less than perfect weather. We have learned that the motor is not the way to go. Weather gets bad up go the sails. Takes the same amount of time to get where you're going but a lot smoother. Ran 16 miles in a 35 knt gale last year under a 3/4 jib alone. Made grilled chees along the way and were docked back up in an hour forty five. Take courses and when the weather is bad go out with a brave buddy in front of your harbour and do some turns and get used to it.

[JohnCFI]

I still play if I am already out in a F6, I would not launch in more that a F4, first hint of a F7 and I scuttle for my mooring.. (I have a hefty mooring available in case I cannot get the boat onto the trailer easily).

If you are feeling worried its past time to look for shelter!!

[drams_1999]

Generally I follow John CFI's assessment as well, however I would be willing to leave the dock under F5 conditions. Where I go is generally protected so the waves don't get too high (don't remember ever seeing more than 4 foot waves in Biscayne Bay).

I would probably be more cautious if I was heading out into open water in the same conditions.

[bastonjock]

ive had my mac out in a force 7,the worst that ive been through was when i hit "outfalls" at the wrong time,i learned to look at the charts closer after that,as has been said its all a learning curve,i can go sailing in a force 8 if the wind is coming from the south and west but as soon as it has east in it,boy does it change,your sailing area will also dictate how you are effected by the weather. I sail in the North Sea,its a shallow sea and kicks up quickly.

as has allready been posted,id suggest that you go and do some courses,you will find the knowledge invaluable,ive also done two online courses one i completed and one that im doing now,i suspect that the one im doing now is also available in the states.

[DaveB]

This past End of Dec. I was in Biscane Bay in a Nor Easter that created breaking 4 ft. seas 20 ft. apart. Water was white foam because of all the sand it kicked up in the shallows and was a bit nasty dealing with them abeam with only 1/2 my jib out at 5-6 knots. Winds 25-30 knots with higher gusts.
I reather be in 10 - 15ft. rollers any time.
I Live to Ride,Sailing or Motorcycle.
Dave

Generally I follow John CFI's assessment as well, however I would be willing to leave the dock under F5 conditions. Where I go is generally protected so the waves don't get too high (don't remember ever seeing more than 4 foot waves in Biscayne Bay).

I would probably be more cautious if I was heading out into open water in the same conditions.

[Russ]

It should be noted that most states now require some mandatory boating education and certification to be legally operating a vessel.

Besides being a legal requirement, boating education is something I feel strongly about. Even experienced boaters can learn something. I am reminded of a course our squadron offered a local yacht club. I was amazed how little these yacht club guys knew. They could get their boats out of the harbor and sail, but didn't know much else.

[JohnCFI]

It should be noted that most states now require some mandatory boating education and certification to be legally operating a vessel.

Besides being a legal requirement, boating education is something I feel strongly about. Even experienced boaters can learn something. I am reminded of a course our squadron offered a local yacht club. I was amazed how little these yacht club guys knew. They could get their boats out of the harbor and sail, but didn't know much else.

I would agree with that. I don't have any sailing quals, but have RYA Power, Nav, and seamanship. all are essential in my opinion and would definitely recommend even a basic course.

[dlandersson]

I don't know this - can you substantiate your claim?

It should be noted that most states now require some mandatory boating education and certification to be legally operating a vessel.

[yukonbob]

Coursework and read everything you can get your hands on. I won't leave our port and go south into it if the water is kicking up (5' +), but if we have to get home and we're running with it, then it has to be pretty bad to stop us. It's always harder to leave the security of the dock when its nasty out, but after being out in it for a couple of hours, docking is the easy part Where you are and the seas around you can vary so much. The beaufort scale is a good indication of open water conditions, but as you approach the coast or throw currents into the mix, different land formations and the way the wind/water and land interact with each other; A ten knot wind can make the water a much more dangerous place that a F9 in open water. There is a place close to glacier bay that has three converging tidal currents…at the right time on a glass calm day it turns into five foot standing haystacks (imagine five foot haystacks of water with no general direction) add a fifteen knot wind to that and it makes for a very interesting afternoon. Like DB with 4' breaking waves…could be very dangerous as a breaking wave, but four and five foot swell is common on a 'glass' calm day in open water and good time to open a beverage Take the coursework and go play around in it. It will make you a better captain, and better prepare you for the inevitable.

[Russ]

I don't know this - can you substantiate your claim?

It should be noted that most states now require some mandatory boating education and certification to be legally operating a vessel.

http://www.nevillefamily.com/Mac%20Mods ... erpage.htm

Varies greatly from state to state.

[rwmiller56]

Here on SF Bay, 20 kts is a normal occurrence on most summer afternoons. The waves don't get much higher than 4 ft or so, but it is very steep and closely spaced chop, and it can get nasty, especially if the tide is ebbing. Motoring can be difficult while taking the waves any further aft then about 45 degrees off the bow. Our boats are light displacement, and tend to ride up over the waves, which can make steering a problem. I found that raising a little bit of sail can help, as the boat will "dig in" under sail, and you will have better helm control. I'll also motor sail if necessary when fighting the current, or if my point of sail is not optimal. Another thing you can try is to go out earlier in the morning, when the wind is lighter. Then, as conditions get heavier, you can hone your skills. Try to stay out a bit longer each time out, until you get more comfortable. That's the approach I took when I first starting going out on SF Bay. And I still do it sometimes, if I just want an easy sail and don't feel like going balls to the walls. It can be tough watching the heavy keelboats go out at 2 pm, just when I'm coming in. But, hey, hanging out at the dock with a beer, and cleaning up and maintaining the boat, isn't so bad, either
And, of course, like others have said, read as much as possible.

[rwmiller56]

Varies greatly from state to state.

Correct. CA does not have such a requirement. I wish it did...
I found the Boat US online course to be a good refresher.

[mastreb]

I find the boat will do more than I will. Above an F5 I drop sail and motor, keeping the boat between swells with the motor to avoid breaching and make way as the sea allows. I live in So Cal and have very little experience with weather of any sort--my typical problem is attempting to make 5 knots of speed in 8 knots of wind.

Matt