Daysailor or Cruiser?

[Moe]

How do you use your Mac?

[Jim Bunnell]

Moe-

I know the debate about the M design change rages on, but the interior of our '03 M really has worked well for our cruising. The rear berth area is much more useable, I wouldn't sleep anywhere else. The v-berth is great for kids. I do most of the cooking outside on a grill - so the odd galley doesn't bother me. While the head is somewhat more cramped, I try not to spend all that much of the cruise there! The large central seating and table are great for games in the evening. We haven't worked out all the storage details, but I keep reading the Mods and collecting ideas. After spending two weeks living aboard last summer, I guess I just don't see that many of those "significant shortfalls."

[mtc]

4 entries found for cruise.
To select an entry, click on it.
cruise[1,verb] cruise[2,noun] cruise control cruise missile

Main Entry: 1cruise
Pronunciation: 'krz
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): cruised; cruising
Etymology: Dutch kruisen to make a cross, cruise, from Middle Dutch crucen, from cruce cross, from Latin cruc-, crux
intransitive senses

1 : to sail about touching at a series of ports
2 : to move or proceed speedily, smoothly, or effortlessly
3 : to travel without destination or purpose

Both the M and the X can do #1 without a problem
Both the M and the X can do #2 without a problem
Both the M and the X can do #3 without a problem

Given the M has been designed for more efficient sailing from the rotating mast, higher aspect, cruising chute with bowsprit, resigned hull, and the blue hull, denotatively, the M is actually better prepared to 'cruise'.

I understand what Moe was trying to say, although the words were not taken as they were intended (i was taken aback a little when i read the post).

Remember the perception aspect - perhaps cruising means being able to pee on the wall and wash it off. That is a good feature, I'll grant you that. Though, most guys would just pee off the rail. Whatever.

No offense taken, Moe. You're ok by me. Just be careful when stating limitations of one's boat. We take that very seriously. Don't know why, but we just do.

Michael

[kmclemore]

OK, well, I'm not gonna step in to the "X better/worse than M" fray.... nor am I going to even attempt to figure out what the h*ll XxxXxxxx is blabbering on about, but I am interested in Moe's poll. I do sometimes wonder how folks use their boat, regardless if it's an X or an M.

For us, I voted #3. Actually, we'd like to overnight more often, but it's hard to find places around here that will let you moor at night

[richandlori]

As a owner of a 04-M, I took absolutely NO negitive feelings from Moe's comments about the X vs M debate. Personally speaking, Moe has spent some of his personal time helping me out with boat wiring setting up my link 10 and even drew me a wireing diagrahm. Besides we all love our boats so if I say the 03/04 is better than the 05....so the hull what. It is simular to me loving italian food but hating Indian or German..(don't all you Germans out there get offended).

Lets all take a breath here for a minute before we go down a road that us "civilized seamen" would be embarrassed about when we later read the posts after our feelings get hurt.

Rich

[Tom Spohn]

I was quite surprised to see the number of people spending the night on their boats. Thanks for the pole, Moe.

We have owned both the X and now the M. We have determined that neither is as comfortable overnight as our good friend's Hunter 387 , but we didn't invest over 100 large ones either. Both boats have some compromises compared to larger yachts when anchored or moored. Like Jim Bunnell above we prefer the M, but we can see why some prefer the X. Just like cars, cameras, skiis, etc. etc. etc. you pays your money and chooses your compromise based on your personal likes and dislikes. I have been proud to own both boats (One at a time).

[scott vos]

Moe,
I recently purchased a new 05 m after reading this board for months (and every one of your disscussions in the archives). I haven't yet set foot on an "X" but I am looking forward to when I attend the "Canam 05 sailing flotilla "this july. We recently went over to catilina island (35 miles of open ocean) from the Los Angeles, Ca coast with Mike and Karen (AYA16) and had the most wonderful time with them and sailing our New "M". I guess because I haven't been on an "X" I can't compare any significant shortcommings my "M" might have. I did decide to install the Tohatsu 90 after all the disscussions here, pro and con(thank you Rolf and Bob), I also put in the the Garmin 176c thanks to you. I am in the process of installing 3 group 27 batteries in paraell with a link 10 monitor(thank you Duanne ) I also installed a Marine head w/ 18 gal holding tank -deck pump out and mercerator pump, I can't imagine dumping a portipotty after a week out. Tuesday I am picking up a custom made 32 gallon fresh water tank that will supply the galley sink and transom shower(no hot water in the plans). I have already installed the second axle on the trailer as this will be a Baja boat one month each year as well as a San Juan and Gulf Island boat. I am waiting for UPS to deliver the new Engel 45 refer/freezer- there are 2 locations up for consideration for the install. I mounted a small mircowave under the dinning table and the table still makes into a bed. I plan on only useing the mirco when I have the Honda eu2000i on deck refreshing the batteries. The xantrex 1500 watt inverter will only be used for the coffee maker in the early am. We put the stern rail seats on from BWY and these are worth every dollar, always in use while under sail. I was able to mount a BBQ on the back of the stern rail seat and the seat serves as a table. I haven't figured out a good way to mount the "bull" yet, for now its bagged in the v-bearth.
I can't wait for this San Juan flotilla and all the X's and M's that will be there. All the collective ideas and Mods. If my "M" has any shortcommings, well, I can't think of any.

Scott

PS, Moe, I respect "ALL" your input and opinions on this board.

[Moe]

I previously posted a link to my considered view of the two boats suitability for cruising, with links to pictures. In that thread...

Another X owner, ALX357, agreed, yet stated he was interested in information to the contrary, as was I. What I (and probably he) was hoping for was details, and maybe even pictures, of cruising setups on the M.

Terry expressed his preference for the '03-'04, but didn't get into any cruising details. He asked that I expand my comparison to include the '03-'04 design. I hope my response of how badly my wife took to that design wasn't offensive to him. In the end, the '03-'04 may be better adapted to cruising than the '05.

Micheal understood where I was coming from, and coherently expressed how his Hobie background relates to the M. He also understood what I meant in this post, even if I didn't word it as well as I could've.

Several members commented on the issue of the family of Mac owners and were well worth noting.

So that leaves Chip, who took an entirely different, reasoned, and interesting approach that it doesn't matter because most Mac buyers are mostly daysailors. I'm hoping this poll (spelled P-O-L-L) will garner way many more than the 20 responses that I agree with him would not be a representative sample.

Other than that, there appeared to be no disagreement with my position from M owners in that thread.

I don't mean to slam anyone's boat, and I think most who've come to know me here realize that. I DO mean to criticize MacGregors departure from the X design, I've done so from my first post here, when aggravated that I couldn't buy a new X, and will continue to do so in the future, primarily for newcomers. If you've heard it before, ignore it like many mature M owners here do. Perhaps as a result, one day I'll be able to buy a deeper V centerboard M with the X interior. Perhaps not, but I consider it worth a shot.

So if you've waded through all this and haven't voted in the poll (spelled P-O-L-L) please do so.
--
Moe

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Gee, does a 3-1/2 week trip with a family of 5 count us as cruisers? I think so. And contrary to some comments we were perfectly comfortable in our X. This was the longest, but certainly not the only multiday trip we have made. Of our 67 days we've spend on board over the last 4 years only 4 have been single day trips. That's cruising.

Check out our log here:

http://www.ddunn.org/Boating.htm

you have to scroll down quite a ways for the whole list.

[Moe]

Scott, your response was exactly what I expected, a detailed and informative counter opinion. I have absolutely no problem with someone saying, "I disagree, and here's why." You're addressing the issues I brought up on the web page. Good on ya, and enjoy your cruising with the M. BTW, after getting used to dumping a 39 gallon black water tank and 35 gallon grey water tank into a 4" hole in the ground, dumping a Porta-Potti is nothing.

Duane, seriously buddy, you and your website are my inspiration. Anyone who can put that much stuff, in such an organized and readily accessible manner, in that little space, has my admiration. If you can do extended cruises on an X with three kids, we can certainly do them with another couple.

--
Moe

[Rolf]

I get discouraged when I see this board head down the "red state blue state path". What Moe and Divecoz have proven is that we are all a very touchy group here and we get enuff crap from other "real sailboat" snobs who care more about how much money a person throws away on their boat than how practical it is.

Two suggestions:
1- Word your comments carefully--we are all a sensitive, passionate bunch.
2- If you don't like what someone says, DON'T RESPOND. Like road rage, it just escalates tensions and divides what has grown into powerful camradiere here. Remember, you may need something from someone here later despite what you think of them at the moment.

Here are the real reasons both the m and x kick ass--

1-It is the biggest boat you can get inside "small boat" shallow draft protected anchor or mooring. That makes all the difference in the real world.

2-Value- about 30 grand total for a big, EASY trailering/low maintenance-operation cost boat with all the upgrades imaginable--big engine, electronics, spares, extras, yadayadayada.
Rolf

[Mark Prouty]

Check out our log here:

http://www.ddunn.org/Boating.htm

you have to scroll down quite a ways for the whole list.

(cool site)

I voted:

"We overnight almost every time we use it and/or do multi-day excursions fairly often."

You can get a little cabin in the woods, a time share condo, a motor home. There are many ways for a family to spend liesure time and money but nothing is better than getting the family out in boats. For this the Mac is the best. What adventures can be had!!

Last summer was my first with this boat. I camped out on Lake Mendota in Madison, WI for two weeks while my son went to sailing school. I spent most weekends sailing or working on my Mac. I took my vacation sailing around Door County WI.

I'm breaking her out for the first time today. It is early in the moring and my son is already saying "let's go dad".

Sailing! The season has started!! I'm going sailing he he.

[mtc]

I agree - these little trailer boats completely rock! Sure, they're not the highest quality, best design, best rigged - but I believe they are the best at what they were designed FOR. . .

A little of everything!

Both designs have inherently limited cruising amenities below - but then, theyre not really cruisers are they - they're trailerable, go anywhere, get there fast, good looking, day sailors. I compare traveling on this boat to when drove cross-country in my '69 GT6+ three times. Not the best long distance cruiser, but a hull of a lot of fun.

If money, slips, and time werent in the compromise, my M would be my Cat 38 (with a blue hull ) but they are and I chose the M and Im happy, so far. I couldn't drag my 60, 000 ton Cat behind my Jeep, eh? Or speed to another port, eh? Nope, just slug along under power (elegantly, I must say) at 8 knots.

I'm very happy with our M. Maybe I'll get out my saws all and cut up the interior and make it more like an X. After all, I don't even try to get through that 'space' next to the motor. No way. Was it really designed for that?

Oh yea Moe, by the way, you did screw up by adding one thing in your review. Now that Marta read the peeing on the carpet wall, shed so grossed out. With a house full of girls, Marta, our four daughters, calico, chow Ive gotten used to sitting, if you know what I mean.

Candidly, when I read Moe's well thought-out review, I wondered if I should've gotten the X. . . ? But because sailing capabilities were my focus, not the cabin, and my lovely bride wanted a new boat - gotta keep Lucy happy (and by the way, she's from Madrid so the Lucy thing is cracking us up) . . . that's where I went. We actually do the Ricardo thing a lot.

Let's all be nice.

KNo coments on speling, gramer thatre bad, or especiallie personnell attacks, or we'll keel haul 'ya, ya lubber.

. . . ever been keel hauled?

[BK]

The first time we spent a week on the Mac X was in Catalina when we first got the boat. We needed to get organized and see what worked. I got many good responses from the board on this subject. After 7 weeks in the San Juan-Gulf islands the last 2 summers we are far better organized for living aboard but wished we had a 2 foot longer boat. I started using the towed inflatable for storage.
As far as this POLL goes I would say a mixed use as I am now using the boat for day sailing only. It really is a mixed use boat. I don't sail when I am cruising as I got too much stuff everywhere down below. I think my thousands mile drive to go cruising may be over unless gas prices come down or I'll just stick to going to Catalina.