Are surge brakes really worth the trouble and maintenance??

[Highlander]

Up here in Ontario anything over 2500# must have brakes & I beleive in Alberta all trl must have brakes , Death wishes to U come free , r a very expensive proposition to those left behind !

If the trl was say never to leave the marina it would be fine , but do not flaunt with the law U'll lose everythink if something should happen

J

[yukonbob]

I always used to use the trans to slow down a hill or coming to a stop. Then I was watching an driving show a long while ago and they had some F1 or WRC racer on talking driving. "brakes are for stopping…thats why they're on your vehicle. Use them! cause they're a whole lot cheaper to replace brake pads than your transmission or your engine" That made a lot of sense so I stopped doing it.

[Baerkanu]

I always used to use the trans to slow down a hill or coming to a stop. Then I was watching an driving show a long while ago and they had some F1 or WRC racer on talking driving. "brakes are for stopping…thats why they're on your vehicle. Use them! cause they're a whole lot cheaper to replace brake pads than your transmission or your engine" That made a lot of sense so I stopped doing it.

True, up to a point - but just as an aside to the flatlanders among us, don't ride or overuse your brakes in the mountains, or even on big hills. Downshift and go slower, even if not towing. Use your brakes intermittently - speed up to cool them, slow down, let it speed up again to cool, etc. Use tow/haul mode and the exhaust brake, if you have it (they're wonderful!). Brakes are meant for occasional, not constant, use and if you abuse them in the mountains you'll toast them, boil fluid, lose your brakes and/or potentially catch your rig on fire. It happens here in the mountains often. Sometimes they pay for it with their lives.

- Clay

[yukonbob]

Brakes can glaze over from overuse but if you're running a 1/2 or 3/4 ton that has the tow/haul option (just a fancy lower gear mode to sell to people) then you most certainly have four wheel 14-18 " vented slotted disc brakes. Towing these boats…those trucks won't notice. If you were towing a skid steer with two buckets and a plate packer (12000 plus lbs) then you'd definatly notice. Either way proper brake application is always in order. My point was that if you have the surge style trailer brakes then your vehicle will have to do less work. I can coast from the summit down to the harbour on the trailer brakes with little to no help from the vehicle. If they go I still have four wheel discs engine and trans to stop me . We have to remember these boat feel big but they are by NO means heavy by towing standards. I wouldn't recommend pulling down long hills or over long distances with a sedan like Rodger made it out to be, but if you're running a half ton or full size SUV on a solid chassis, they are not heavy. Even if you have it loaded to the nines and an after market trailer (i would hope if you're exceeding the trailer weight) They are pretty light in the grand scheme of things.

[Baerkanu]

Hi Bob -

You're absolutely right, for a well-equipped truck these boats are small potatoes, and it'd be pretty hard to mess up enough even in the mountains to get in too much trouble. My daily driver is a 2011 Sierra crew cab dually with a Duramax - hit the interstate, set the cruise to 75 and head down the road, you don't feel the boat and it won't even downshift up hills. Use tow/haul and exhaust brake (the former is not lower gearing, it allows higher rpm, downshifts when you tap the brakes, and talks to the exhaust brake when the cruise control is set to precisely control speed downhill) and I've got the great advantage of not worrying about tongue weight, or braking, or much of anything else since the boat is about a fifth of what I can tow with it. I've taken the boat to Seattle area twice over I-90 - set the cruise and forget it, it handles the passes both up and down fine, no braking even required.

When I put the 4,500-lb camper on the truck, and 4 horses in the heavy steel trailer, then I'm at 12 tons and I'm much more careful coming downhill (though modern trucks still make it pretty easy, unlike my old F150 that used to run away with a brisk tailwind).

But towing with a lighter, non-specialized vehicle is a different ballgame - not a problem, it's done all the time, but more to watch out for. Even in an empty passenger car or on a bike, treat long downhill grades with respect. You can smell the brakes on unloaded passenger cars with Kansas plates here quite often. Big vented rotors are much more forgiving, as are lighter weights in general, but my point is - please be careful! Be conservative and figure out what your particular vehicle/combo is capable of handling before getting comfortable. Mountain driving bites the unfamiliar in the a** all too regularly.

I'm just asking people to keep all this in mind if they're unfamiliar with mountain driving, and figure out what their particular rig's limits are the easy way, instead of the hard way.

- Clay

[Tomfoolery]

And know what 'escape' or 'runaway' ramps are there for.

[Catigale]

In Western NY runaway ramps are called 'exits'

I think there is one hill between Albany and Buffalo, at Geneseo...

[Daniel]

TRUNORTH, I have just researched the same topic. I was adding an axle to the trailer and looked at changing to electric braking. What convinced me was the postings indicating that the National Transport Safety Board were considering making surge brakes illegal. This is due to surge brakes are not able to be manipulated from within the interior of the Vehicle.

Mod note - the proposal to ban surge brakes applied to large trucks - not to consumer boats and utility trailers per thread referenced below.

[Tomfoolery]

Is this something new? I know there was a federal requirement that all brakes be controlled 'with a single valve', but that was clarified recently (couple or few years ago) to allow surge brakes.

The requirement stemmed from the early days of air brakes, in the first half of the last century, where systems weren't standardized and the driver might have been required to control the trailer brakes separately. Such control is still there (last time I drove trailers, which was 25 years ago) in the form of a trolley brake on the steering column, but the brake pedal controls both tractor and trailer brakes.

[Tomfoolery]

Ah, here you go. Is this what you were referring to?

http://www.macgregorsailors.com/forum/v ... ve#p247950

Slide down to the highlighted parts, about the middle of the thread.

[mastreb]

I will say that on my boat, every time the surge brakes engage (you can hear a "knock" when the draw bar shifts forward) the tires lock up solid. There's no middle ground, the brakes are either hard engaged or disengaged, period.

It does what it's supposed to do: Prevent the boat from pushing the vehicle forward and jackknifing it. It is not useful for sway control at all. But my tow beast doesn't need that, so it's fine for my purposes.

If I were running a smaller tow vehicle and more near the limits, I think I'd convert to electrical brakes.

[BOAT]

My Sprinter diesel van is a 3/4 ton truck that is almost as high and only 4 feet shorter than 'boat' and weighs a LOT more and draft from the boat is nothing because of the sheer bulk of the van out front - the Sprinter also has a button for anti skid, and another button for anti sway (trailer mode) which applies the brakes individually on each wheel as needed and in trailer mode adds a delay to the shifting into fifth gear at a better RPM for the turbo under heavy load. On top of that I have 2 cameras connected to the dash view GPS/lcd screen - one looking down at the hitch from the roof (it's actually the back up camera) and the other looking straight back (which is the wide angle 'rear view' camera - sees all traffic behind within a 2000ft 170degree area).

If ever anyone had the right setup to skip trailer brakes it would be me - and i promise you - I never would, even if the law did not require them - (and back in the 70's the law did NOT require them yet we found the hard way WHY trailer brakes are absolutely necessary).

They are cheep too - your entire trailer cost what? 575 bucks?? so the entire axle assembly INCLUDING TIRES is what?? 350 bucks??? So if you spend 100 bucks a wheel to replace disk brakes and bearing every two years that's NOTHIN! On a regular boat you would spend that every 3 months just for BOTTOM CLEANING!!

Accept the superiority, efficiency, and cost effectiveness of a boat stored on a trailer and pay the puny price for brake maintenance - you will always be ahead of the game. For you guys with $$money$$ just call the "Boat Trailer Man" when your out sailing - the Boat Trailer Man will service your bearings, change your brake pads inspect rotors and even re-carpet your boards if they need it all in about an hour. That's what the rich guys from La Jolla and Del Mar do in Oceanside Harbor where I launch. I'm not rich so I do it myself - but I'm just sayin, there's no excuse.

[mastreb]

Do you have the boat trailer man's number? Because I'm gonna need it when I get back home!

[seahouse]

I will say that on my boat, every time the surge brakes engage (you can hear a "knock" when the draw bar shifts forward) the tires lock up solid. There's no middle ground, the brakes are either hard engaged or disengaged, period.

Hey Matt –

I'd say that something's possibly not right with your trailer brakes then (something not sliding smoothly?) – they should be applying braking power in proportion to how hard your vehicle brakes are applied, by sensing the amount of forward push against the hitch ball.

-B.

[mastreb]

Hi Brian,

It's likely that there's some corrosion keeping the pushpin on the master cylinder from moving smoothly. I'll get up in there with some WD-40 and see if that sorts it out.

Matt