What do you torque lugs to

[Ormonddude]

I will and I will There are millions of cars, trailers and vehicles Most have a Spare NONE have a torque wrench.
Three men were sentenced to be executed by guillotine; a priest, a Muslim, and an engineer.

first was the priest and he asked that he face upwards so he could look at Heaven and his Creator. his wish was granted and the blade fell, but stopped 1/2 inch from his neck. the executioner said since the guillotine spared him, so was his life and he was allowed to leave.

next was the Muslim and he asked that he also be allowed to face upwards to look to Allah before his death. again the guillotine stopped just short and his life was spared as well.

the engineer was last and he too asked to face upwards given what happened with the first two. as he lay there, he looked up at the mechanism and said, "Aha, i see the problem!".

[dlandersson]

FYI, any time I read/hear "my father/mother/brother/sister/cousin/friend is/was in the military so I know...." I roll my eyes.

Pretty sure it's true for other fields. If it's not you - then you don't really know.

[Ormonddude]

FYI, any time I read/hear "my father/mother/brother/sister/cousin/friend is/was in the military so I know...." I roll my eyes.

Pretty sure it's true for other fields. If it's not you - then you don't really know.

Actually I do know a pompous ass when I see one

[kmclemore]

FYI, any time I read/hear "my father/mother/brother/sister/cousin/friend is/was in the military so I know...." I roll my eyes.

Pretty sure it's true for other fields. If it's not you - then you don't really know.

Actually I do know a pompous ass when I see one

Best to avoid mirrors then, eh?

[Ormonddude]

Well and a Liar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dukaZ0YE6P8
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ ... 4Aod8XkA0A
Anyone who refuses to accept a valid argument simply because they want to be right all the time is by my definition a pompous ass
Our trailers are no more tender or precision than any other out there and bottom line unless your incapable of delivering reasonable balanced torque by your own experience with tools you DO NOT NEED A TORQUE WRENCH

[kmclemore]

Well and a Liar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dukaZ0YE6P8
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ ... 4Aod8XkA0A
Anyone who refuses to accept a valid argument simply because they want to be right all the time is by my definition a pompous ass
Our trailers are no more tender or precision than any other out there and bottom line unless your incapable of delivering reasonable balanced torque by your own experience with tools you DO NOT NEED A TORQUE WRENCH

OK, so you think that the same tools used by NASCAR are available at Northern Tools & Equipment. At discount prices, yet.

Umm. No.

You'll notice the fine print on that gun - it says 'street legal'... this is the cheap look-alike gun they sell to the public. Ingersoll Rand does not sell the real 'Thunder Gun' to the general public... they sell them only to racing teams. (Funny enough, if you had actually watched that video on the Northern Tool link you referenced you'd probably have worked that out for yourself - they clearly state that the gun used by the race teams is not the gun that they sell to the public.)

Read this article and it will explain all about the real 'Thunder Gun' that is used in NASCAR (and elsewhere)...

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/ne ... n-12403645

As the name suggests, the Thunder Gun is a powerful tool—a ½-inch impact wrench that uses 110 psi of nitrogen to produce roughly 1000 lb-ft of torque and 15,000 rpm. (A typical impact wrench runs at about 1800 rpm.) Ingersoll Rand sells the $1500 gun exclusively to professional race teams. Hurd then customizes and scrupulously maintains the guns for the tire changers, making any number of adjustments depending on their preferences.
...
The guns are used by nearly all Nascar tire changers and can be modified in numerous ways. For example: Nose cones can be steel, titanium, or carbon fiber (the last being the lightest). The gun's exhaust can be widened for improved airflow and higher rpm, and it can even be repositioned if needed (a front exhaust might blow brake dust in the gunman's face, or a side exhaust could spit oil onto the jackman or the tire carrier). And the resistance on a forward—reverse torque toggle can be adjusted (most Sprint Cup tire changers prefer high resistance to prevent an accidental switch).

Yes, believe it or not, I actually do know what I'm talking about.

[island808]

If you know what your max torque roughly is coming out of your arm to a 4 way, whatever. Yes you will warp,discs and drums when not torquing properly... probably why almost everyones brakes are warped.
But as far as getting down the road with all your tires... Tight is tight. Even tight is best. Working at a boat and rv dealer we checked torque with a torque wrench and were responsible for recording torque on the ro. I have seen this elsewhere at service and tire stations. I watched the bmw mechanic torque down my lugs with a torque wrench. But most places do not, of course.

I have a hitachi 18v impact driver. It maxes at 92ft/lbs. i just stick that thing on till the craftsman logo stops spinning. Happened to be the torque recommended for my toyota when i bought that. Seems to be even.

Bit of paranoia over trailer lugs. Just get steel wheels and let em rust to the hub... No problem. Your car lugs need attention as well.

[raycarlson]

Gosh, Gollygee what a spirited contest we have, and no ones even being threatened with excommunication, can we start discussing wet versus dry threads when properly torqueing fastners now. I think there is extreme opposing opinions about any mechanical procedure one can do, I think the truth floats back and forth in the middle somewhere.

[kmclemore]

Bit of paranoia over trailer lugs.

Actually, I agree with most of what you said, with the exception of this last bit. If we were talking about a heavy-duty 2-axle trailer with plenty of spare capacity and two big wheels on each side in case one went bad, I would not be nearly so concerned and I'd likely agree with you. However, our Mac trailers, love them as we do, really are at the margins of safety as supplied from new. The axle, tires, bearings and other components are *just* adequate to do the job, but not much more. Look at the load ratings on the stock tires, for example, and then do a back-of-the-envelope calculation of the total weight of your rig... you'll likely find that the numbers are pretty close. As a result of this marginal build, the individual parts, and the trailer as a whole, take an awful lot of stress and are therefore more prone to failure if not properly maintained. Hence my concern about the torquing of lugs - those studs are already about as stressed as they're going to be in any trailer-install situation... adding over-torquing to them only increases the risk of failure. And with only one wheel on each side, failure becomes a very serious situation... and potentially catastrophic.

When I worked at Lotus Cars we used to design the cars with "expected load + 1%" in mind, per Colin Chapman's (usually profane) instructions... i.e. as light as you can make it, but with almost no tolerance for overloading. Lotus road cars got a reputation for being easily bent and broken, but they also were the world's fastest production cars (at the time) because of their lightness. Now, I'm not saying that Mac trailers are racing trailers (is there such a thing?!) but they are similarly built to minimum standards, in their case to reduce the overall cost. And, to Rodger's credit, they will serve adequately for many years if properly maintained... many of ours are well over 15-20 years old and still going strong... but they won't take much in the way of lack-of-maintenance, improper repair or abuse.

The bottom line is that I tend to maintain my trailer - and my cars and boats - like my life depended on it... because someday, it just might.

[Russ]

If we were talking about a heavy-duty 2-axle trailer with plenty of spare capacity and two big wheels on each side in case one went bad, I would not be nearly so concerned and I'd likely agree with you. However, our Mac trailers, love them as we do, really are at the margins of safety as supplied from new. The axle, tires, bearings and other components are *just* adequate to do the job, but not much more. Look at the load ratings on the stock tires, for example, and then do a back-of-the-envelope calculation of the total weight of your rig... you'll likely find that the numbers are pretty close. As a result of this marginal build, the individual parts, and the trailer as a whole, take an awful lot of stress and are therefore more prone to failure if not properly maintained. Hence my concern about the torquing of lugs - those studs are already about as stressed as they're going to be in any trailer-install situation... adding over-torquing to them only increases the risk of failure. And with only one wheel on each side, failure becomes a very serious situation... and potentially catastrophic.

When I worked at Lotus Cars we used to design the cars with "expected load + 1%" in mind, per Colin Chapman's (usually profane) instructions... i.e. as light as you can make it, but with almost no tolerance for overloading. Lotus road cars got a reputation for being easily bent and broken, but they also were the world's fastest production cars (at the time) because of their lightness. Now, I'm not saying that Mac trailers are racing trailers (is there such a thing?!) but they are similarly built to minimum standards, in their case to reduce the overall cost. And, to Rodger's credit, they will serve adequately for many years if properly maintained... many of ours are well over 15-20 years old and still going strong... but they won't take much in the way of lack-of-maintenance, improper repair or abuse.

The bottom line is that I tend to maintain my trailer - and my cars and boats - like my life depended on it... because someday, it just might.

Very well said Kevin. This is the exact reason I'm adding a second axle. The stock trailer is barely adequate. It works fine for the vast majority, but I don't want to be the unlucky one in the minority. With all the junk I have on my boat, I'm sure it's overloaded with just 2 wheels and I'm not towing with a highly engineered tow beast so I need all the safety I can get at highway speeds.

Turning the lugs tight is probably fine, but since I have a torque wrench, why not do it right? Takes 60 seconds longer. As mentioned, high end car dealers torque their lugs. Your local discount tire dealer probably doesn't because it costs time and labor, but they should. I bought tires at Costco and the receipt said, "Bring the car back in 25 miles to have lugs re-torqued". Nobody does this but it makes sense.

And as for these "expert mechanics" that "know" how tight is tight, that's fine for them and their families. The U-Haul mechanic broke off a bolt installing my hitch and left it that way on my car. Left it with a frigging missing bolt snapped off. I have no confidence in other mechanics anymore. I'll go by the book and save headaches down the road (literally).

As for dry vs. wet torque: My money is on dry. The majority of reputable people I've spoken with agree, so that's how I'm doing it. YMMV

BTW Kevin, this looks like fun. I'm taking your advice on this topic.


--Russ

[DaveB]

I have a impact 18 volt driver I leave at home and never relie it for torqueing wheel nuts.(probably foget I left it in truck,battery dead) I do it on a 4 way bar and have tandem axels.
I use T-9 by Boesheild to spray nut and bolt for ease of off on removel.
Some will say never to put a lubricant on lug wheels but been with white lithium spray and past 2 years the T-9 with no problems of bolts loose and easy take off.
I use my Trailer in Salt water only and this is my way, also spray all bolts,springes and connectors/ anything I need to protect.
After 2.5 years on new tandem aluminum trailer I learned.Both axels were replaced than.
Brakes holding bracket in most cases are not galvanized and only painted steel. They go first.
A 4 way bar for torque has been used for 100 years and still works good for on the road service. If you do have a impac wrench at home ck your tire lugs when you get home.
Dave

I have a hitachi 18v impact driver. It maxes at 92ft/lbs. i just stick that thing on till the craftsman logo stops spinning. Happened to be the torque recommended for my toyota when i bought that. Seems to be even.

Bit of paranoia over trailer lugs. Just get steel wheels and let em rust to the hub... No problem. Your car lugs need attention as well.

[kmclemore]

BTW Kevin, this looks like fun. I'm taking your advice on this topic.

--Russ

Yeah, Russ, I had a wee bit of fun with the two cars at a Castle Combe track-day time trial in 2011. Behind me in the photo are my two sons, Clayton and Charlie. They were absolutely dying to drive as well, but sadly they don't have their racing licenses. The cars, incidentally, belong two of my mates from the UK and are powered by motorcycle engines... and they're quick as all heck.

[Catigale]

Lubing bolts definitely separates fresh from salt water sailors. What worries me about staying dry is that in salt water use these things do rust up and then break. I'm more fearful of not being able to get a wheel off than having a wheel come off. My car gets an hourly break and inspection when I trailer , which adds 15 minutes to my trip time and years to my life of relived stress. I KNOW things are ok back there because I've checked,

Sex, religion, politics, oil change intervals, lubing your nuts.....all topics of contention..

[kmclemore]

I'm OK with lubricating the lug nuts and I understand that rust is an issue with salt water. I just would make sure you adjust your torque settings to suit the situation (lower torque, of course) to prevent over-stretching the stud. The charts I posted earlier have estimates on what that lower figure should be when lubricated.

Here are some charts that show the differences between lubricated and dry torques. When not stated, every torque chart I know of states the torque in *dry* ratings only.

http://www.repairengineering.com/bolt-torque-chart.html
http://raskcycle.com/techtip/webdoc14.html
http://www.federalscrewproducts.com/torque-chart.htm

"Note
'The values listed above are for clean and dry parts free of lubricants and thread lockers. A lubricated fastener must have the torque values reduced 25 - 30% from the above ratings."

As for checking the trailer at regular stops, yes, that's a MUST. Like you, I stop shortly after setting off (about 5 miles or so) to ensure everything is kosher - really just checking security of the boat, trailer, etc. Then after that, I stop after the first 25 miles and do a 'walk around' which includes a brief check on the following:

- turn on your parking lights and 4-way flashers
- check hitch, electrical connection and chains
- check trailer's winch connection to the boat
- check left tire and bearing by placing my hand on them and checking their temperatures - they should be warm but not hot. If either one is hot there's a problem (under-inflation or a bearing issue). Also look for any obvious tire damage (bulges, cracks, missing tread).
- check the left wheel's lug nuts w/ torque wrench to ensure they have remained tight
- check the securing strap (I strap my boat across the cockpit and down to the trailer)
- check the motor is firmly fixed in place
- check the lights (You should have all the parking and side lights lit as well as both flasher lamps going. Admittedly, this does not check brake lights, but you could have a passenger tap them at this point to be safe.)
- check the right tire, hub and lug nuts (As above with the left. The right tire and hub should be pretty much the same temperature as the left - if different, investigate.)
- done!

It's a quick walk-around, but it hits the high points. Only takes about 3-4 minutes to complete this check, but it could save you hours of aggravation. I re-do this check every time I stop for gas on a long trip. I've successfully trailered my original Mac trailer nearly all the way across the country and never have had a problem.

[seahouse]

Kevin--

The roads would be much safer if everyone followed your procedures. Such routine checks are mandatory for trucks.

After the initial re-torque of the lug nuts, you can also mark their position with a marker (with a Sharpie or whatever). After that a quick visual check on the walk-around will reveal if any are coming loose.

- Brian.