New owner...direction and info needed.

[morrobaymac]

So I just picked up what is my first sailboat outside one meter R/C's. Its a 1978 MacGregor 22 that I picked up off of craigslist for $150. It didn't come with any sails, no running rigging, and has one of the spreaders is broken at its mounting bolt. Otherwise it seems to be all there, but then this is my first actual sailboat and wouldn't know if anything smaller was missing anyway. The trailer looks very solid and pretty much rust free with new tires, aside from needing new bunks its good to go.

I've read that these hulls are thin,and now that I have one I understand...they are very thin. I'm interested to know how much deck flexing is normal when pulling moderately hard on the pilots and stations. Mine gives a several millimeters at least...feel like if I fell over and grabbed one of the stations that it might just break the deck. Alas I dont want to see how strong they are, just know what strong enough is.

The liner is also quite thin, and while stepping into the cabin onto the keel channel I can hear it sort of crackle like its breaking a little bit more every time I step on it. Not like its going to break, but enough to wonder how many hundred times its going to handle it before that slight crackle becomes an issue. The same occurs when steeping on different parts of the cockpit and on deck if I put too much weight on one of my knees while crawling around up there scrubbing it. Perhaps I'm just used to larger boats with much thicker layups that don't give and flex at all when moving around on them.

Two of my shrouds have one or two broken strands. It doesn't appear as though they broke from stress, but like something may have impacted it at some point. Should I replace them, or is it a big deal to have a couple broken strands?

I haven't dropped the keel, but looking up into the pocket, its very clean and appears damage free aside from the keel feeling like its got a bit too much play in it. How much play is normal on the keel?

I'm surely gonna have a million more questions for you guys, so I've gotta say. Thanks in advance.

[morrobaymac]

[Russ]

Wow, for the age of that boat it looks very clean. And what a deal you got!

Replace broken rigging. Not worth messing with broken strands.
Can't comment on flex, but I'm sure it's normal. Don't sweat it unless you see some serious cracks (which I don't see in the photos).
Yup, smaller, lighter boat is not the same as a keelboat that can't go on a trailer.

Good luck in getting it ready to sail.

Update your profile with boat type and location.

And new guy buys the pizza.

[morrobaymac]

Wow, for the age of that boat it looks very clean. And what a deal you got!

Replace broken rigging. Not worth messing with broken strands.
Can't comment on flex, but I'm sure it's normal. Don't sweat it unless you see some serious cracks (which I don't see in the photos).
Yup, smaller, lighter boat is not the same as a keelboat that can't go on a trailer.

Good luck in getting it ready to sail.

Update your profile with boat type and location.

And new guy buys the pizza.

Thanks, the seller said it was abandoned on his property some time ago and just wanted it gone. The last tag on the boat is from 1994, so I don't think I'll have too many problems registering it.

He claims it is a '78, but he didnt have any paper work for the vessel. How do I go about verifying the year?

When replacing just a couple of shrouds, is it better / less expensive to send them out to be replicated, or do it myself? I've been reading about hi-mod swagless fittings that would allow me to easily do it myself, which look pretty good as well. Those suckers aren't cheap though. With a couple damages ones, I'm tempted to replace them all though for the piece of mind. Any idea on what it'd cost to do that though?

As far as the running rigging, I'm at a bit of a loss as to go about replacing it. What sizes / lengths/ ends of lines I'm gonna need. Are those kits I see on eBay for a coup!e hundred bucks any good, or are they just preying on newbies like me that don't know any better? When I do outfit the running rigging, I'd like to run all lines back to make it easier to single hand it, as well as keeping myself and the GF off the deck while underway as much as possible. I take it the running rigging has more to it than just putting ends on rope from home depot?

This boat does not have any winches either, is that something that'd be helpful to install now, or just sail it for a while without them and then make a decision?

And yes, I'll buy the pizza and drinks for anyone that makes it out here to show me how to set up and use this thing when I get it finished.

[mastreb]

Before you do anything else, I'd float it at a boat ramp with a dock and make sure you don't have any nasty hull surprises to worry about.

2nd thing I'd do after making sure it floats, that the centerboard works properly, tiller works properly, etc., is get a small outboard for it. 6hp +/- will do the job, and then go out and around a bit in your local lake or water to get comfortable with the tiller steering and docking, undocking, and trailering a boat this size. You'll get a lot of fun out of it, and you can use the boat this way while you're getting the rigging done which is important for motivation.

Don't be afraid to re-rig the entire thing. A boat that age should probably be re-rigged by a new owner even if it came with everything.

Find a similar boat in your area (look around at marinas) and work out how they're rigged in order to determine what you need to do. You didn't mention how the standing rigging looks--be sure to inspect it thoroughly and replace if you've got any broken strands or kinks in the eyelets or if there appears to be rust in the swages.

You may be able to buy a complete set of standing rigging (shrouds) cut to length, swaged, and ready to go at BWyachts.com for about $200 total. Otherwise, I think your best bet is to get measurements from an owner on this forum and just have a rigger or West Marine make you a new set of shrouds. Total cost there should be <$400.

The running rigging on these boats is very simple, you won't have any trouble working it out. I don't think you need winches on a boat that small, at least don't go buy them until you know you need them. Cleats should do just fine.

The trailer looks great! Make sure the bearings are greased and there's no painted-over rust.

Good luck and keep us posted!

[morrobaymac]

Before you do anything else, I'd float it at a boat ramp with a dock and make sure you don't have any nasty hull surprises to worry about.

2nd thing I'd do after making sure it floats, that the centerboard works properly, tiller works properly, etc., is get a small outboard for it. 6hp +/- will do the job, and then go out and around a bit in your local lake or water to get comfortable with the tiller steering and docking, undocking, and trailering a boat this size. You'll get a lot of fun out of it, and you can use the boat this way while you're getting the rigging done which is important for motivation.

Don't be afraid to re-rig the entire thing. A boat that age should probably be re-rigged by a new owner even if it came with everything.

Find a similar boat in your area (look around at marinas) and work out how they're rigged in order to determine what you need to do. You didn't mention how the standing rigging looks--be sure to inspect it thoroughly and replacre if you've got any broken strands or kinks in the eyelets or if there appears to be rust in the swages.

You may be able to buy a complete set of standing rigging (shrouds) cut to length, swaged, and ready to go at BWyachts.com for about $200 total. Otherwise, I think your best bet is to get measurements from an owner on this forum and just have a rigger or West Marine make you a new set of shrouds. Total cost there should be <$400.

The running rigging on these boats is very simple, you won't have any trouble working it out. I don't think you need winches on a boat that small, at least don't go buy them until you know you need them. Cleats should do just fine.

The trailer looks great! Make sure the bearings are greased and there's no painted-over rust.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Handling a boat this size is a non issue for me. While tiller steering feels funny compared to a wheel, I've don't it enough to comfortable, that and plenty of time behind the wheel of r/c helicopters has taught my brain to do just about anything backwrds .

I don't for see any issues with the hull integrity. The bottom is likely the best looking part of the boat.



Although I do need to replace the trailer bunks.




The keel pocket looks great, but I'll probably drop it anyway just to make sure the pivot is good.

[morrobaymac]

For a couple / few hundred bucks, I think new standing rigging will be a wise choice. These have seen better days.



The chain plates look good, but I think I'm gonna pull the bolts just to check for crevice corrosion.



The mast step has me a little concerned...shouldn't there be nuts on the underside securing it to the deck as well?

[Russ]

Matt has some good ideas. Hose off the smutz and float her. Put a motor on it an put around for fun.

Blue water yachts may have all the rigging you need. I would stay away from eBay. Learn what you need and source it carefully. Running rigging is generally some form of polyester that won't stretch. Nylon is no good and polypropylene isn't either.

Winches. I have them on my boat and never use them.

Get the mast up and rigged. You may find some sails on eBay. Might be a good way to learn without investing much.

[seahouse]

The last 4 digits of the HIN on the starboard upper transom will give you the year and month of manufacture. (Recent models also have this number repeated in a secret location inside the boat).

A boat manufactured in the second half of the year is considered to be the next year's model.

-Brian.

[Hamin' X]

Might want to drop richandlori a PM, or email. He lives aboard a boat there in Moro Bay and is a really nice guy. Used to own a Mac.

~Rich

[Catigale]

A small hand rigging swage tool that fits in your tool box costs about 30 usd and takes about one minute per swage.

The jaws of life kind cost 2x more and take 5 seconds per swage.

Those Swages have not seen much salt water IMHO and look pretty good. These boats aren't loaded up to 1000 lbs of tension...250 lb is probably the tightest shroud on the boat. The forestay is the only one that is non-redundant.

[NavySailor]

Welcome aboard!

Great looking boat! I just bought my 1986 M25 in May. I'm still working on her. But one of the first things I did, as the crew suggests, was to splash her and make sure there weren't any surprises with the hull.

Also - Do the older Macs stow their masts that way? Mine attaches with a bolt to the handrail on the bow and then rests in a wooden crutch aft. Guess it doesn't matter as long as it doesn't fall off while you are driving!

Looking forward to hearing about the refit!

[Tomfoolery]

Regarding the standing rigging, if it were me, I'd put up the mast, tune it per the manual, make sure it actually can be tuned per the manual, then take it down and have new standing rigging made. BWY lists the standing rigging for that boat and vintage, and a dizzying array of other parts for that matter. $48 for the lower shrouds, and $52 for the upper. Forestay is $66. All are 1/8" 1x19 SS wire rope, and have the tangs and stay adjusters on them already. But they want you to send them your old rigging, as apparently there can be a lot of variation in rigging length and termination hardware with those boats. The doesn't have that problem, and I've replaced all but the backstay through BWY by just placing the order. The backstay I made myself.

Or get the swaging tool and and 'roll your own'. For small wire like this, the little hand swagers with bolts are probably the best way to go. I have the jaws of life type, but I use it a lot for other things, including larger wire.

Broken wires are not good, considering you don't have many to start with (19, to be exact), and there's a reason they're broken. Mangled thimbles are helping.

If one of those shrouds parts under heavy sail load, the mast could fold in half, or fall down, depending on which one.

But before spending any real coin on it, I'd do what has to be done to gain clean title to it, and get it and the trailer registered. Depending on the state, that may not be so easy. I had a nightmare experience trying to register my boat and trailer, since the owner had passed away, and the dopes at the DMV all had a different perspective on what had to be done (like producing a death certificate, which I still have in the file), and I went to three different offices until I got the answer I wanted - the widow's name was also on the title and registrations, without the word "and", so she could legally sell it by herself (without "and", it becomes "or" as far as NYS is concerned). Took 10 minutes at the last office, where they seemed to know what they were doing. Something to think about, early and often.

[morrobaymac]

Welcome aboard!

Great looking boat! I just bought my 1986 M25 in May. I'm still working on her. But one of the first things I did, as the crew suggests, was to splash her and make sure there weren't any surprises with the hull.

Also - Do the older Macs stow their masts that way? Mine attaches with a bolt to the handrail on the bow and then rests in a wooden crutch aft. Guess it doesn't matter as long as it doesn't fall off while you are driving!

Looking forward to hearing about the refit!

I'm not really sure how the mast is stowed from the factory. The seller had it tied onto the pulpits, so I just left it there for the trip home. I will be building a cradel for it soon.

[morrobaymac]

Regarding the standing rigging, if it were me, I'd put up the mast, tune it per the manual, make sure it actually can be tuned per the manual, then take it down and have new standing rigging made. BWY lists the standing rigging for that boat and vintage, and a dizzying array of other parts for that matter. $48 for the lower shrouds, and $52 for the upper. Forestay is $66. All are 1/8" 1x19 SS wire rope, and have the tangs and stay adjusters on them already. But they want you to send them your old rigging, as apparently there can be a lot of variation in rigging length and termination hardware with those boats. The doesn't have that problem, and I've replaced all but the backstay through BWY by just placing the order. The backstay I made myself.

Or get the swaging tool and and 'roll your own'. For small wire like this, the little hand swagers with bolts are probably the best way to go. I have the jaws of life type, but I use it a lot for other things, including larger wire.

Broken wires are not good, considering you don't have many to start with (19, to be exact), and there's a reason they're broken. Mangled thimbles are helping.

If one of those shrouds parts under heavy sail load, the mast could fold in half, or fall down, depending on which one.

But before spending any real coin on it, I'd do what has to be done to gain clean title to it, and get it and the trailer registered. Depending on the state, that may not be so easy. I had a nightmare experience trying to register my boat and trailer, since the owner had passed away, and the dopes at the DMV all had a different perspective on what had to be done (like producing a death certificate, which I still have in the file), and I went to three different offices until I got the answer I wanted - the widow's name was also on the title and registrations, without the word "and", so she could legally sell it by herself (without "and", it becomes "or" as far as NYS is concerned). Took 10 minutes at the last office, where they seemed to know what they were doing. Something to think about, early and often.

I agree that registering it sooner than later is a good idea. God knows that many DMV employees arent paid for being smart. Although I do have a pretty good one here.

After doing several hours of reading yesterday about standing rigging, I think that I am going to make my own and nicoppress the ends. You guy make a good point in that the rigging on this thing isn't under all that much load. I'd love to go with mechanical ends for aesthetics, but they are way more money than I want to be putting into a boat like this.