How do you guys tie up your rudders while underway...

[Tony E]

I hope the rule " there are no stupid questions" applies in this case but I have a simple question for you guys. When you are getting under way and you are not going to use your rudders, How do you store your rudders in the up right position and secure them so that they don't fall down over time. When I first got my Mac 26X no one really showed me that part and I just experimented with them. I have the standard black plastic cleats in the back to tie the ropes up that secures the rudders but on several occasion they slipped down or on a few occasional they actually fell down and damaged the bottom of my motor. They have had a few battles scars in the fiberglass from this happening so last fall I took them off and they are in my garage now getting some fiberglass and paint put on them. I am wondering if everyone has cleats to lock the rope tight and if that rope is the cotton kind? If not cleats then what else can I get to make it more secure? Also what kind of knot are you tying the rope off with? Can you use a polyester rope or a smaller width rope? AS always, thanx for your help!

[Spector]

Standard cleat tie off. Never had one slip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMwXjckgiOs

[Tomfoolery]

Standard yacht braid, secured with a standard cleat hitch.

Mine are tied as a single loop, so as you pull them up, the other end shortens. I wrap the extra line around the cleat (after the cleat hitch) just to use up some extra line, which makes it even harder for it to slip. But a cleat hitch is very secure if done correctly.

And FWIW, that's all I use for dock lines, too. No extra cross-overs. No extra anything. And I've never had one slip, even a little.

If you have the stainless brackets, there's an extra hole, smaller than the hinge hole, that you can put a bolt or pin through, as a belt-and-suspenders move. Not a bad idea for trailering. I use a spare dock line around both rudders, tied with a little slack, just in case. But even travelling on the highway for long distance, the cleat hitches on the little plastic cleats have never slipped.

Edit: And for a little snarky entertainment, walk down any dock, and look at all the messed up dock cleat rope piles. 20 times around the cleat (with no room left for the other boat that has to share the cleat). Interesting knots. Hitches that will likely slip with a large load. And feel superior that your simple, neat, efficient cleat hitch will hold against anything. And apply that to the rudder cleats.

[dlandersson]

Ditto.

Standard cleat tie off. Never had one slip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMwXjckgiOs

[Starscream]

As per the MacX manual I always insert the small bolt through the rudder brackets and the rudders themselves. I think it's about a 2.5" bolt with a 7/16 head. The hole in the rudder brackets lines up with a hole in the top of the rudders when they are almost at their vertical position.

The manual has a bit of humor in it, and says that if the rudders come down while you are driving they'll get a lot shorter really fast. The cleat knot is probably fine I just have a natural tendency to follow instructions.

[dlandersson]

That's embarrassing - I didn't know that. Thank you.

As per the MacX manual I always insert the small bolt through the rudder brackets and the rudders themselves. I think it's about a 2.5" bolt with a 7/16 head. The hole in the rudder brackets lines up with a hole in the top of the rudders when they are almost at their vertical position.

The manual has a bit of humor in it, and says that if the rudders come down while you are driving they'll get a lot shorter really fast. The cleat knot is probably fine I just have a natural tendency to follow instructions.

[Tenacious]

As per the MacX manual I always insert the small bolt through the rudder brackets and the rudders themselves. I think it's about a 2.5" bolt with a 7/16 head. The hole in the rudder brackets lines up with a hole in the top of the rudders when they are almost at their vertical position.

The manual has a bit of humor in it, and says that if the rudders come down while you are driving they'll get a lot shorter really fast. The cleat knot is probably fine I just have a natural tendency to follow instructions.

It says the same thing in the Tattoo manual and I heeded their advice, same as you Starscream. If I'm trailering, the bolts are in the rudders. If I am 'underway', I just cleat them off.

[Russ]

As per the MacX manual I always insert the small bolt through the rudder brackets and the rudders themselves. I think it's about a 2.5" bolt with a 7/16 head. The hole in the rudder brackets lines up with a hole in the top of the rudders when they are almost at their vertical position.

The manual has a bit of humor in it, and says that if the rudders come down while you are driving they'll get a lot shorter really fast. The cleat knot is probably fine I just have a natural tendency to follow instructions.

It should be noted this is for underway ON THE ROAD.

This is not practical for securing it on the water. In fact, I forgot to remove the bolt pins before launching at the ramp. After pulling the trailer away, I had to undo the bolts in the water. Not an easy task.

--Russ

[kurz]

It should be noted this is for underway ON THE ROAD.
This is not practical for securing it on the water. In fact, I forgot to remove the bolt pins before launching at the ramp. After pulling the trailer away, I had to undo the bolts in the water. Not an easy task.
--Russ

Well this was my first - very first tripp - on the water. Good friends that allready had own a but we forgot to take out the bold out of the ruders to keep them down...

Even that the water was warm and we could jumpt in we could not solve the problem becouse we didnt have any tools

So we could just motor to the home harbour.... nice story ...

[JotaErre]

Standard yacht braid, secured with a standard cleat hitch.

Mine are tied as a single loop, so as you pull them up, the other end shortens. I wrap the extra line around the cleat (after the cleat hitch) just to use up some extra line, which makes it even harder for it to slip. But a cleat hitch is very secure if done correctly.

And FWIW, that's all I use for dock lines, too. No extra cross-overs. No extra anything. And I've never had one slip, even a little.

If you have the stainless brackets, there's an extra hole, smaller than the hinge hole, that you can put a bolt or pin through, as a belt-and-suspenders move. Not a bad idea for trailering. I use a spare dock line around both rudders, tied with a little slack, just in case. But even travelling on the highway for long distance, the cleat hitches on the little plastic cleats have never slipped.

Edit: And for a little snarky entertainment, walk down any dock, and look at all the messed up dock cleat rope piles. 20 times around the cleat (with no room left for the other boat that has to share the cleat). Interesting knots. Hitches that will likely slip with a large load. And feel superior that your simple, neat, efficient cleat hitch will hold against anything. And apply that to the rudder cleats.

Great explanation!

I do the same, and the rudders have never slipped down.

[paul I]

There are two lines attached to each of my rudders. One is a continuous line that goes through the center hole of the cleat with the ends attached to the midpoint and lower end of the rudder. I call it the "cinch line" and I believe it is what Tom is describing. When you let the rudder down the line travels one way and when you pull it up it travels the other way. When I want to lock the rudders in place, either up or down or while trailering I cleat off the cinch line in the standard manner.

I also have what I call the "raising line" attached to the lower edge of each rudder. The raising line has a permanent loop tied into it at the right spot so that when the rudder is fully raised I can just get the loop over the horns of the cleat. The free end of the raising line also goes through the center hole of the cleat and has a knot stopper on the end so it never gets lost. When at the dock only the raising line holds the rudders out of the water. I use two different colors for the two lines so I can easily tell them apart.

When getting underway I can deploy the rudders quickly just by pulling the raising line loop off the cleat and letting them fall into the water. At the low motoring speeds I use to get out of the marina, I don't even need to secure them with the cinch line. I do secure them when sailing or motoring between say 4 and 7 knots.

Interestingly, this system always leaves some part of the line in the water while underway. None of the lines are long enough to foul the prop or anything else, but I have been called to task by good doers on the docks warning me that I have a line dragging. I have to educate the persistent ones just to shut them up. Apparently many have never seen deployable rudder systems before.

I lust after the auto release cleats you can get.

[Chinook]

I think what you describe as the "raising line" was added by a previous owner. I'm pretty sure it wasn't stock. The continuous line, which runs through the hole in the cleat, actually serves perfectly well as both a raising line and the line to secure the rudder when it's down. If you use the continuous line to raise your rudders, you can avoid having line drop into the water by cleating the line off with the free line, not the one that runs through the hole in the cleat. By cleating the free line, it crosses over the other line and locks it. If you avoid trying to cleat off with the line that runs through the hole, you should avoid the problem of line laying in the water.

[Starscream]

I misread the original question, and posted a reply about how I keep the rudders up while trailering; using the bolt-holes. Of course this method in the water is ridiculous.

In the water I have the same system as described by several posters above. Here is a photo of the rudders cleated in the up-position. The rudder ropes (if I knew the nautical name for them I would have posted on another thread about ropes) are the blue ones and you can see the loop system. These are easy to use, but getting them up does require a good pull, not something you can easily do without turning around and bracing yourself properly. Dropping them down only takes a second.



By the way this is Lac Simon in Quebec, north of Montebello. Not the biggest lake but some of the nicest beaches and water I have seen in Canada.

[Russ]

Edit: And for a little snarky entertainment, walk down any dock, and look at all the messed up dock cleat rope piles. 20 times around the cleat (with no room left for the other boat that has to share the cleat). Interesting knots. Hitches that will likely slip with a large load. And feel superior that your simple, neat, efficient cleat hitch will hold against anything. And apply that to the rudder cleats.

I would say 95% of the boats at our marina have no idea how to use a cleat. I have driven my family crazy with this. to the chagrin of my wife, I have redone a few because it bugs me so much.

--Russ

[Gypsea Wind]

I have had no issues with a cleat hitch on the water. I do like the idea of tying a loop to pull over the cleat when raising the rudders. For trailering I ditched the bolts and replaced them with SS Clevis pins with hitch pin clips- no tools needed. I have also launched with the pins still in. Luckily it was nice weather and warm chesapeake water for my swim