EV-100 Auto Pilot Install

[kadet]

It's tabbed on with 4 strips of fibreglass I used this to remove it as I am not reusing the top

[BOAT]

Okay, sounds good - I have a couple of those - a Dremmel made in Germany and a Milwalkee made in the US, (the German one still works).

I know what to do now - thanks.

[RobertB]

I got the specs from RayMarine that said they wanted at least a 14 inch tiller for proper leverage. Since the tie rod is attached less than 13 inches from the axle I knew the tie rod was not gonna work and gave up that idea.

Just want to clarify a point: On our boats, do not get hung up with the 13 inch measurement. I worked with Raymarine tech support and we agreed on the following:
1. The 13 inch is a nominal minimum value to cover a wide range of issues and different rudders. It is not a hard and fast rule.
2. Our rudders have a very small chord - thus do not impart much of a lever arm to the steering (do not need much force). Thus, using a smaller lever arm will not overpower the actuator.
3. Most important is to match the throw of the actuator with your steering. Measure the total range of the actuator and pick a point in the steering that matches this stop to stop. I found the stock rudder lever to work fine.

A few other points: Yes, this is a very interesting and inventive install. But I like having my AP available to respond to an emergency - immediately. Having to line up the steering to a single point kind of makes this less than optimum. Also, the feedback from the actuator is not excessive - after a few times using it, we do not notice it is there.

I am more concerned with the RayMarine unit not accepting track data from my Garmin GPS - it displays speed and depth so it is communicating.

[kadet]

I am more concerned with the RayMarine unit not accepting track data from my Garmin GPS - it displays speed and depth so it is communicating.

I had the same issue, fixed it by using the NEMA 0183 connections on the Garmin to the Raymarine course computer. Seatalkng is NEMA 2000 compatible it is not NEMA 2000 and it never worked with my Garmin 2000 backbone. Raymarine use there own "custom" sentences in their comms .

[kurz]

2. Our rudders have a very small chord - thus do not impart much of a lever arm to the steering (do not need much force). Thus, using a smaller lever arm will not overpower the actuator.

I guess the most force is used when the motor is connected. I think just steering with the rudders and a NOT hooked on motor the forces are low.

Would be interesting how much kg it ist to pull if you would mesure with a spring balance at the steering arm - with motor hooked on.

I guess the ev-100 can take 80kg???!

[Obelix]

I think, the problem-loads really are happen when the motor is raised while connected to the steering. The weight of the side-tilted motor in any turn must not only be lifted when changing course, but also be compensated during the turn by an increased holding current.
I leave the motor down, most of the time when sailing, since the sailing speed is not really impacted that much by the increased drag of the freewheeling motor.

Obelix

[BOAT]

Your quote button is broke: I never mentioned the "chord" of the rudder, (I don't even know what that means), but I know what a see-saw is!

Fat kid on a see-saw: the other kids need a longer side to get the fat kid into the air.
or
'the force needed to move an object increases as the length of the lever is decreased.’

Model ST-4000 has a throw of 9.5 inches. If you DID shorten the lever point to accommodate a swing of 9.5 inches you would connect to the tiller less than 11 inches from the axle - (4 inches below RayMarines requirements). ST-4000 has the power to handle that fat of a kid but 14 inches is not just for breakfast anymore - (leverage) – you also need to lift the fat kid ONE INCH AT A TIME if you want precision.

A 13 inch tiller is fine for me out in the Pacific running in Pleasure Mode 90% of the time. RayMarine had only one question: “are you racing?”

????

Racers OR you guys in protected waters and inlets and rocks and traffic and buoys and all that stuff that makes you guys true navigators are going to be more interested in a longer tiller arm because you may need to use the pilot in PERFORMANCE mode. The unit needs enough travel to make small adjustments in performance mode cuz the AP tries to hold course to within 1 degree. In leisure mode - no big deal.

As for having the unit connected all the time, again: for me it's just "first star on the right - on till dawn" - I'm not gonna run into anything, I can SLEEP when underway!
My issue is light winds – in the morning the wind creeps at 2 knots for a few hours and I am on a south facing beach so I need to tack to get up the coast in the AM hours - tacking in light winds with that thing attached is a pain. I need the extra throw and the fast wheel, (sometime I even scull the wheel a bit to rotate ‘boat’ around the dagger board to stay out of irons.

You guys up there on Whimby Island and out in the reefs in the Keys and through the straights of Canada and those outer banks in the south, and really, MOST of you MAC guys out there who really are TRUE navigators - I think you folks might appreciate having the unit connected all the time. Most the guys I know sailing MACs are better at navigating dangerous waters than the guys who regularly cross the Pacific.

So, you should not have any real issues with the unit attached permenant to the tie rod.
So that leaves me with one question:

What is it I need to connect my new RayMarine back bone to my existing Garmin Backbone?? What cable do I need? Any links for me??

[RobertB]

Backbone connection - Both Matt and I detailed how we did this - see previous posts for details. Matt did his first and made many of his adapters. I may have had more standard parts available and only made one (because I was tired of shelling of $$$ for RayMarine adapters). I used the Raymarine backbone all the way to the pedestal. I then used a spur type adapter to change to the standard (Lowrance) type NMEA2000 setup. I then connected my ETEC60 and the Garmin chartplotter. I now have a way to track fuel usage on the chartplotter (but total available fuel resets every time power is cycled) and the autopilot displays speed and depth for those times the chartplotter is full screen. I am not yet able to use track data from the Garmin GPS on the RayMarine autopilot. A few have recommended I use the NMEA0183 output from the Garmin - this is done over the existing SeaTalkNG backbone and requires another adapter http://www.marineoutfitters.ca/index.cf ... _raymarine - I have yet to try this and not sure if it will work. There are no dedicated NMEA0183 connections in the EV100 system.. RayMarine has recommended I reload software - to do so I either need to send the system back to RayMarine or buy a $1000 control head I can connect my computer to.
BTW, the main difference between RayMarine SeaTalkNG and NMEA2000 is the connectors.

[kadet]

the main difference between RayMarine SeaTalkNG and NMEA2000 is the connectors.

In the hardware yes but Raymarine also use propitiatory statements in their software which is also not standard NMEA2000 which is why it gets some data from the Garmin but not all because it is expecting to see the statements in their format. A software patch may fix it but the only way to do that on my system is to install a Raymarine plotter and if I did that I would not have the problem

I hate the way standards are made for inter-compatibility then manufactures choose to ignore them Raymarine calls this in corporate speak "SeaTalkng is a proprietary extension to NMEA 2000" I actually suspect it was done so the old propitiatory Seatalk devices remained compatible with newer Raymarine products but in doing so they broke some of the standard NMEA 2000 statements.

Seeing as the EV100 was new and based solely on Seatalkng I thought this may have been fixed over my SPX-5 but your experience seems to suggest otherwise.

[BOAT]

Ya ya ya, I remember all that gobbledygook that kadet and mastreb were saying and I read that post about 0813 or something and 2000 but I still don't get it. I figured I would get the pilot working and THEN call mastreb to deal with the plotter later. One thing I did do because of things kadet said was I made sure I had an extra spur in the pedestal. Don't know if I need it but I think kadet put one in so I did too.

Funny thing though, that control head already has an extra spur right on it's back? What's that for?? It's not mentioned in any of the layout diagrams so I was afraid to use it as a path:



A few days ago over beers mastreb told me all I needed was a cable and since we were only on our third beer at the time I would assume his info is reliable - but I'm not really sure what cable I need. Matt makes his own cables. (not me) - I guess I could try.

[RobertB]

I called RayMarine again today - was told that I need to configure the output of the Garmin for track data - oh we will see. Other bits of wisdom:
Since my deviation in course heading displayed between the Raymarine AP and the Garmin GPS is around 14 degrees, I would need to shim the AP compass unit off center to get the deviation below 10 degrees where I could adjust that out in the setup menu. I have the AP compass mounted on the head bulkhead. Also, to get the unit software updated, I would need to send the compass, computer, and control head to RayMarine to get all three programmed. Seems to me they did not think this system support concept out very well. The option is to buy an additional display that would double the cost of the system.

[mastreb]

I called RayMarine again today - was told that I need to configure the output of the Garmin for track data - oh we will see. Other bits of wisdom:
Since my deviation in course heading displayed between the Raymarine AP and the Garmin GPS is around 14 degrees, I would need to shim the AP compass unit off center to get the deviation below 10 degrees where I could adjust that out in the setup menu. I have the AP compass mounted on the head bulkhead. Also, to get the unit software updated, I would need to send the compass, computer, and control head to RayMarine to get all three programmed. Seems to me they did not think this system support concept out very well. The option is to buy an additional display that would double the cost of the system.

Are you sure that's not magnetic vs. true configuration problem? The variance is about 13 degrees.

[mastreb]

Ya ya ya, I remember all that gobbledygook that kadet and mastreb were saying and I read that post about 0813 or something and 2000 but I still don't get it. I figured I would get the pilot working and THEN call mastreb to deal with the plotter later. One thing I did do because of things kadet said was I made sure I had an extra spur in the pedestal. Don't know if I need it but I think kadet put one in so I did too.

Funny thing though, that control head already has an extra spur right on it's back? What's that for?? It's not mentioned in any of the layout diagrams so I was afraid to use it as a path:



A few days ago over beers mastreb told me all I needed was a cable and since we were only on our third beer at the time I would assume his info is reliable - but I'm not really sure what cable I need. Matt makes his own cables. (not me) - I guess I could try.

You just need a SeaTalkNG to NMEA2000 adapter cable. West Marine San Diego has them in stock.

[BOAT]

Hey Matt,

Had more discussion with Ray Marine Technical today and they said you were right. Apparently the big secret about the SeaTalk is that it's just the standard DeviceNet protocol that is used on programmable controllers and automation stuff. So the cable thing should work. I am going to go to West Marine and get one. Thanks.

I plan to just connect the Ray Marine backbone right into the Garmin backbone so all the stuff can talk to each other.

[kadet]

I plan to just connect the Ray Marine backbone right into the Garmin backbone so all the stuff can talk to each other.

Yeah good luck with that, that's what I did and the Raymarine Autopilot computer saw some of the Garmin output like wind speed and heading from memory but not the track data or waypoints. Hooked up the NMEA 0183 ports and viola everything worked. I know your 100 does not have NMEA 0183 hence the good luck