M19 vs 26X In Rough Waters

[RHC]

I am considering downsizing from my 26X to an M19. Waters in my area can be rough. Can the 19 handle everything the 26 can, or does it need to stay on the trailer except for ideal conditions?
Thanks for inputs,
RHC

[kadet]

Define rough as I don't consider any Mac except maybe the 65 as being capable of handling truly rough conditions

[jrcanoe]

I would think the 19 would handle anything the 26x would just easier and wetter. I think the rapid tiller response to all the freeboard windage would be an advantage over a wheel .

[RHC]

My definition of rough (based on my confidence level/criteria for going out w/ the 26X):
Swells= 4ft max
Wind waves = 2 ft max
Wind=16knots
Yep, Ive been forever fair weather newbie sailor.
Since the beam is same between 26x and M19, I figured M19 beam/length ratio makes it less susceptible to turn turtle. But as always, there is more in real life than just theory, so I figure folks with hands on experience always trumps theory.
So I guess, the m19 will get tossed around more due to lighter weight, but less likely to turn turtle.
Thanks much for responses,
RHC

[kadet]

Yep that there is moderate would be fine

[Highlander]

The hull had hard chines the did not, the time & intensive labour cost to make the hull was the same as the which sold for twice the money , so that was the end of the

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/m ... 010029.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/m ... 010027.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/m ... 010023.jpg

when the was introduced it basically had the same deck mold as the so it looked like a 26
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/m ... CN1406.jpg

the Hull was a flat bottom . the hull was more rounded

the new racing sail boats are all coming out with hard chines which makes u think that Roger was ahead of the times !!

my was highly modified
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/m ... 010048.jpg

the was vastly under powered sail wise so I extended my mast from 24ft to 28ft

http://vid78.photobucket.com/albums/j95 ... EW_NEW.mp4

trying to post more but photo bucket is really slow right now so will try later

J

[Signaleer]

The hull had hard chines the did not, the time & intensive labour cost to make the hull was the same as the which sold for twice the money , so that was the end of the

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/m ... 010029.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/m ... 010027.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/m ... 010023.jpg

when the was introduced it basically had the same deck mold as the so it looked like a 26
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/m ... CN1406.jpg

the Hull was a flat bottom . the hull was more rounded

the new racing sail boats are all coming out with hard chines which makes u think that Roger was ahead of the times !!

my was highly modified
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/m ... 010048.jpg

the was vastly under powered sail wise so I extended my mast from 24ft to 28ft

http://vid78.photobucket.com/albums/j95 ... EW_NEW.mp4

trying to post more but photo bucket is really slow right now so will try later

J

So I have a question and it is a completely sincere one: Do you calculate lift vs. drag? And if so... how? I have been told that that much canvas aloft can introduce more drag vs. lift/force. And please know, I'm envious I've got sail envy. But is there a website or tool that can run different models? I now that that much canvas allows you tons of configuraiton options, so maybe that's the answer?

Ed.

[Highlander]

I talked to one of the designer,s engineer,s @ the Mac Factory , I believe his name was Bill not sure as I talked to more than one guy there , but basically I was told the was designed under powered sail wise because they were selling to mainly new or beginner sailors , the first models had a rotating mast & no spreaders & a 3/4 jib the later models I believe they increased they mast height and added a set of spreaders done away with the rotating mast & made it a Masthead rig with a full size jib or genny , but was still way under powered sail wise I was told , so I raised the mast hieght from 24ft to 28ft strengthened the rigging added a 4ft bowsprit & a second set of spreaders & jumper struts
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/m ... 0002-1.jpg

My intention for lenghtening the mast was to allow me to use a main sail & a bigger spinnaker I was able to go from a 300sq. ft spin to a custom made 350sq ft Spindrifter
http://vid78.photobucket.com/albums/j95 ... nnaker.mp4

http://vid78.photobucket.com/albums/j95 ... 010001.mp4

U can see I also added a pedestal & wheel steering
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/m ... 0_4291.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j95/m ... ing/a2.jpg

Hope that answers ur questions

J

[Catigale]

Half Moon Bay is big water outside the gate, but if you were comfortable on ypur 26 I would say the 19 would be even easier to handle in similar conditions.

[sailboatmike]

Just a thought, maybe some of the lesser thoughts people have about the X maybe due to the huge amount of weight their boats are asked to carry.

I try and keep mine pretty lean, without carrying all the extra heavy gear around with the exception of the 75Hp Merc which comes in at 135Kg or about 50Kg above the original Tohatsu 2 stroke.

I have been out in 30knts of wind with 1 1/2 meter (4 1/2 foot) short steep chop as the area is shallow, I found the boat revelled in the conditions, cut through it like a hot knife through butter, yes it was a bit wet as the bow dropped into the trough and came back up rapidly with the next wave but it had a solid positive feel that just filled you with confidence as she ploughed on through it all.

I also have a JOG boat (Junior Offshore Group) which I find doesnt give the same positive feel, despite its huge ballast to displacement ratio, length to beam ratio and being built like a tank compared the the 26X

I personally think if some of the X and M's went of a diet they would be far better sea keepers than some of the obese over weight boats that are going around

[dlandersson]

I know I need to lose a few pounds

Just a thought, maybe some of the lesser thoughts people have about the X maybe due to the huge amount of weight their boats are asked to carry.

[jrcanoe]

One of the reasons I bought the M 19 was that it could run home like a scarred rabbit if the weather turned nasty. The worst it gets around here is wind blown white caps 3 ft high. I have pounded into waves and wind where the choice was give the motor enough gas to have full control and get lots of spray or go slower and get blown off course and around a bit and only get wet from the rain. I have sailed home down wind with no sails up. I was surprised how well it sails just from windage. Never felt scared or out of control as far as the boat goes. Once when the lightning was getting closer I was a little afraid so I rammed the boat up on shore and took refuge in a kind fisherman's truck. As far as the Ocean go's the only boat I would like to be on when it got ruff would be a submarine, I think it would be fun for 10 min then I would want to submerge down to where it was peaceful.

[Y.B.Normal]

jr, where do you sail around Pitt?

[jrcanoe]

jr, where do you sail around Pitt?

First pool up from Pittsburgh on Allegheny river I have a dock and a hour north is Moraine State Park. On the river everybody stares at me like I'm an alien if I am sailing!

[BOAT]

I only sail 'boat' in the open ocean. Anything I get under 4 foot sea is a lucky day for me. The only difference to us between a 1-2 day and a 2-4 swell day is the time we spend below decks. The the sea gets 4 foot and above we get more of a queasy feeling trying to read a book or use a computer below decks, but really, under sail 'boat' pretty much performs the same in either sea. Even the occasional 5 and 6 foot sets don't really change the routine. It's under power in a following sea that the big choppy swells become uncomfortable to me. I don't like power over three footer because I don't like to power slow. It's way better and more comfortable to be under sail.

Also, the MAC seems to take heavy sea pretty good light, or heavy, but when heavy the boat seems to pitch and roll less to me. That's just to me - Highlander probably could answer that one better than me. One thing I know - the flatter your bottom, the more effect weight will have on your boat. Putting the M hull bow deeper in the water with weight will make the boat pitch less, but it will also slow it down under sail - weight in the front has the opposite effect under power - at WOT the extra weight in the bow makes the M hull go faster if it's on a plane, (not sure why, but I have tested this by moving people to the forward berth under WOT with no ballast), - not sure on the X or the 19.

The 19 is probably the best looking boat Roget built - and it's built well. It's a great boat - and rare. I like them and the people I have met that have them don't seem to be afraid to take them anywhere. The 19 is really the original Tattoo 22 - it's a perfect trailer boat.