Proof that the M is faster than the X??

[richandlori]

This quote was taken from the Mods page by Don Schutt and it could be used to forward the argument in the M's improvement.

My X-type sailing rig was destroyed when I hit a piling.

So I replaced the X-rig with a M-rig. Gateway Sailing in Punta Gorda, FL did the work. Basically they had to put a new mast step in and new chainplates set about 8 inches more to the rear than the normal X-rig.

I took it out for a sail yesterday in about 15 to 20 mph wind. It works great. I did not take GPS measurements but it seems faster on all points of sail. It also goes about 5 maybe 10 degrees closer to the wind.

The rotating mast really does improve things. It got caught at the wrong angle, I manually adjusted it to the wind and we took off at least another knot or so. The boat does not seem to lean anymore than it used to, it just goes better.

[jsserene]

The only proof is that the rig is faster and not the hull.
Jeff

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

You left out the part where he mentioned that he had a brand new set of custom sails, full batten main and genoa.

http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=3046

While the taller rotating mast benefits are hard to measure, personnaly I think his new sails make a big difference over the stock sails. I would suggest that an X with it's shorter fixed mast and a really good set of sails could easily beat a M with it's taller rotating mast and the stock sails.

Tampa Mac has the best of both worlds. The taller rotating mast and new improved sails. These lead him to believe that his X so equipped will be faster than a stock M.

Of course as we all know the equipment, good, better, or best, only goes so far. A good sailor with the stock mac gear will always beat a poor sailor even with better gear. Sailing skill is the biggest component in a race of any X vs M. The boats just aren't that different.

[richandlori]

OK...I missed that detail. I cut from the mod section which didn't talk about the addition of new sails.......

I guess the old argument will never be put to rest.....

Rich

[baldbaby2000]

While the taller rotating mast benefits are hard to measure,

The effect of rotation vs non-rotation on the M is easy to measure. It does go faster with the mast rotated than not; I've tried it. Of course this isn't a comparison to the non-rotating X mast.

I've been wondering how to measure hull drag. Not so much to compare to the X but to see the effect of drag vs heel angle. If the boat was anchored in a current, and the stretch of the anchor line used as a relative measure, the boat could be heeled at different angles and the effect on drag could perhaps be visualized easily. A high stretch line with markings could be used.

[baldbaby2000]

You left out the part where he mentioned that he had a brand new set of custom sails, full batten main and genoa.

I can believe that the new sails would help a lot. When I had my Mac 25 we got a fully battened main and were hard to beat. We owned half the boat and we gave up our half and got another 25 with regular sails and couldn't catch our old boat.

Before we got them we were told by the sail manufacturer that fully battened sails weren't any faster, just quieter and due to the reduced flapping would last longer.

I've been thinking about a fully battened main for our M and called the Doyle sail guru in California, his name escapes me. He basically said the same thing. He said they offer a 2 by 4 option which puts two full battens at the top, where flapping happens most, and puts regular battens at the bottom, to reduce weight compared to full battens.

I still wonder from my past experience if a fully battened main would be better. I have read that they improve sail shape in light winds. Sailing an M in light winds is tricky for me.

[Divecoz]

Are not most races decided on by the skill of the Captains and crews???
Isn't that what we see in one design races ??

[baldbaby2000]

Are not most races decided on by the skill of the Captains and crews???
Isn't that what we see in one design races ??

Skill, equipment, and luck; they all play a roll.

[ken lockhart]

No offense to anyone, but I have raced sailboats for many years and owned a Mac 26X at one time. I don't think that you would be able to tell the difference between the speed of a boat with a rotating mast or one with out. The difference is so small that I doubt that it could be measured. I will take new sails and experience over a rotating mast any day. Just more marketing fluff from Roger. IMHO

Ken

[vkmaynard]

What brand of better sails are available?

Victor

[Terry Chiccino]

I'm going to get it here but in reality the blue hull is probably faster than the white hulls because the blue hull owners are constantly maintaining that blue hull to keep up with the oxidation that we white hull owners don't see. Now everybody knows that a buffed and freshly waxed (blue) hull is always going to go faster