Steering...rudders not parrallel

[Beam's Reach]

I've been having trouble with steering my 97 MacX. My first launch and recovery last weekend at a busy public marina on a long weekend was a very humbling experience. Luckily there was a very patient marina assistant to help me. I assumed that once I got out of the marina and into open water I would pick up the feel quickly, but I find myself drastically oversteering. The jump from a canoe to a 26 foot boat has been quite a learning experience and I guess I'm expecting too fast a response to helm adjustments.

While motoring with the rudders up, I noticed that the rudders do not appear to be parrallel to each other and also seem to be turned slightly when my outboard appears straight. Would this affect my steering much or does it just create more drag?

I can see how to adjust the outboard to the rudders, but is there a way of adjusting the rudders to each other? Any other tips on steering or is it just the obvious...smaller adjustments and be patient? Is there any benefit to marking off the center or "straight ahead" position on the helm or will this just confuse things?

[NYharleyrider]

I'm having the same problem, but my boat is a 2005.
It's very squirley and doesn't hold a straight line while motoring.

Even worse at slow speeds.

I tried motoring with the ruuders and dagger board fully down, but still the boat doesn't like to hold a straight line. What's going on?

Is anyone else having this problem or is there some kind of technique that I'm not aware of that I should try.


Also on my boat I noticed the same issue as Beam's Reach.
"While motoring with the rudders up, I noticed that the rudders do not appear to be parrallel to each other and also seem to be turned slightly when my outboard appears straight."

[Catigale]

Beam - couple of things

- Motoring over 6mph with rudders up, you are basically trying to keep your bow in front of your stern ...its pretty easy to oversteer in this configuration. Centerboard UP when motoring...while you can help stability with bit of board, if you go too far down it is dangerous - the boat will get squirrely.

- You might find the boat much nicer to handle with both rudders down and keeping speed at 6 mph - maybe get the feel of her here first? Centerboard can be fully down here with no problems

- Make sure your rudders are all the way FORWARD (rope pulled tight and cleated in down position - Helm will be very heavy if you dont do this and you can also break steering gear.



-

[GARY WEEKLY]

I,ve got a 97 also and experance the same problems,,I,ve tried everything suggested on this board,,at about 10 knots things seem better just don,t have the rudders or cb down! you have to get used to the boat wanting to waddle and take small corrections. I checked all the stearing linkage and could come to the only fact that there is some play in everything so don,t fret and have a good time.

[argonaut]

There's a thread somewhere that dealt with this.
My '97 rudders are not parallel either... I noticed while I had them off fixing dings.
Seems like it was understood they were made with a slight "toe-in" or "toe-out"... can't recall.
Anyway, one reply said they'd made their own steering bar. Several had gone so far as to bend the factory bar too, but I didn't think bending the stainless bar was something I could do myself.
I think a replacement adjustable bar could be made from hardware store parts, but I wasn't convinced that you'd really want them perfectly parallel anyway, and decided to put that off for a while.

[Jack O'Brien]

When motoring, at any speed, I have the CB line lowered 4-inches which lets the top aft corner of the CB not quite emerge from the trunk. This lets it act like a skeg on a motorboat for better steering control. The trunk provides good support and it does not have the dangerous random "lift" it would have farther down.

[elia]

I had the same problem on my 04 M. the calculations I did put my rudders off by about 15 degrees. My method of choice was to bend (just a bit) the steering crossmember below decks. I have not gone out since I straightened them last week, but to me the boat looks much better with rudders that are in alignment. All you need to do the job is a big vise that is solidly connected to an unmovable bench, and a strong back. I can assure you that you will not be able to go overboard using this approach, because it takes a lot pulling to bend the crossmember even a little. I had to go back to the vise 7 times to finally get to the point where I was satisfied. The one thing you have to be careful about is making sure that you determine the proper way to bend the steering arm (increasing or decreasing the angle) before you start .

While I was working on the misalignment I disconnected the outboard, and I was amazed at how easy it is to turn the helm without the motor attached. It also corrected the problem of the helm seeming extremely sloppy, which I now know was due the outboard linkage. I have ordered some quick disconnects and am going to make a new linkage to connect the motor to the M's steering so I can disconnect it while sailing. There have been a few threads on this board about engine linkages. One of those had a picture of a linkage made by one of the Mac dealers, which is similar to the one I am going to make.

Hopefully this will solve the steering problems I have had with my boat.

[Sloop John B]

Yeah, and wrap a piece of black electrical tape around the top of your wheel. When you're slopping along you can 'feel' where things are pointed and there's such a 'delay' with motor punch and stuff, it's good to know what's going to happen soon, without resorting to erratic/incorrect wheel movements in the meantime.

[Russell]

could this be by design? Lets say you are making a turn to starboard your inside rudder(starboard) should in theory be at a tighter radius than your outside(port) so that the foils dont stall. Granted you will have some drag going straight. This is just my best guess but its probably just a mistake repeated on each boat. Hmmmmm

[argonaut]

If the rudders had "toe-in" or "toe-out" wouldn't they create unnecessary drag when you do what you most often, move in a straight line?

Sacrifice straight line efficiency to turn better... I dunno.
Only other boat I sailed with dual rudders was a 16' cat, and it's rudders were parallel.
Simply an aluminum bar that fastened two short tillers together.
If there was a hull design that needed help in the turning department it's catamarans. Always needed lots of momentum going into a tack.

Toe-in would also hve the effect of causing the rudder on the inside of the turn to have a sharper angle , therefore hit it's steering limit before the other one would. So one rudder would tend to stall before the other I believe.

This probably also depends on whether we're talking about a few degrees per rudder or something much larger. Having some toe-in might improve steering response. Most autos have toe-in.

[Jim Bunnell]

Not by design... at least my 26M manual states "You might also check to make sure your rudders are parrallel with each other. If not, they tend to fight each other and create unnecessary drag. You can adjust them by judiciously bending the tiller cross bar."

Jim

[joncon17]

I agree with Sloop JB, Ive always knotted wheels w/tape or hemp if the wheel was already wrapped so I knew exactly where the boat would be pointing while doing other helm chores. Try it

[Joe 26M Time Warp]

I just disconnected the steering arm from the port side. I was surprised at how crudely designed the rudder assembly is. In the first pic you can see two of the four bolts that hold the main support bracket.

It's a stainless steel L - bracket with the 1.25" diameter rudder pivot supporting its weight and turning on the bracket. I also bought the BWY custom steering for $79. I wanted to check the rudders by hand because the rest of the steering linkage seems so cheaply done. A few bushings and washers can tighten the heck out of that .

The top has no hardware at all, just a hole drilled into the fiberglass at enough of an angle or out of line enough to make the steering of that rudder tighten at one extreme of it's arc and loosen more at the other.

The whole idea of the rudder pivot would be to make it as free moving and resistance free as possible. I guess the whole idea of "feeling" the boat through the steering is going to take a few mods no matter what.



You can see the rudder retrieval line and how they welded the small bolt sized rod in the pivot shaft for turning your line. I thought I could get a pic showing the air gap on one side but you get the picture. Its way too tight and misaligned. That all assumes it's natural position is down. If you push it up there is a washer that separates the moving pivot shaft from touching the fiberglass.
I guess the answer is to remove the bracket, align the hole through the fiberglass and install an upper plastic bushing, the bottom needs both thrust and radial bushings. I'm not sure if Delrin or UHMW would be best suited.
Chances are someone's done all this before. Anyone?

[baldbaby2000]

Time Warp,
I was looking at mine mainly trying to find the sources of slop. One spot was at the top of the rudder shaft. This is inside the boat. There is a bolt that goes through the shaft (a SS pipe) with the rudder pull down line in it which also goes through a bracket that connects to another pipe that goes to the other rudder bracket. Sounds confusing when I write it but there's not much to it. There seemed to be significant slop in the holes that this bolt went through. By tightening the bolt I removed quiet a bit of the slop. I wish I would have checked the alignment but I didn't. I've thought that a test of this would be to pull up the windward rudder and see if the boat does any better.

I'm looking forward to any suggested improvements.

BB

[Joe 26M Time Warp]

Note; the line in those pics is for deploying the rudder, not retrieving. -opps!

Bald, I know the spot you're reffering to, mine has several degrees of extra play there also.
If you add it all up;
Steering wheel motion to steering screw output
Looseness in the steering screw output pivot
Slop in the connection from steering to starboard rudder pivot arm
Slop in steering crossarm to rudder pivots on both ends
Slop in the pivot arm to rudder yolk (the one Bald mentioned)
Then the crude connection and mechanics seen in the pics above
.....You wind up with a steering system full of slop and wear situations that just begs for attention.