Forestay wire and furling advice needed

[romandesign]

Went sailing yesterday on my new 1989 Mac 26D for the third time, and got roller furling stuck on me on the way to the dock. We tried to roll it with some winch, which was a mistake. Apparently it was stuck to the forestay wire inside so we rotated the wire. As a result the top of the wire unwinded and one strand broke, as I found today. It was a brand new wire I got the the boat (so maybe similar problem occured with a previous owner). See photos below. Now what to do? I'm thinking about replacing the wire myself. There is a turnbuckle on the bottom side and a loop on the top side

1. Is the wire a regular steel wire I can get at the Home Depot or other stores? If so, what size/type? If not, where do I get it (West Marine?) and what size/type?
2. What tools do I need to make those loops at the end and how do I make sure I do it right? I don't want for it to become undone and the mast fall on me.
3. What could be the reason for it to become stuck? I suspect it was sitting too low over the turnbuckle and a screw that fixes the drum got caught on the turnbuckle inside. I'll see if I can get it sitting higher. Anything else can be the reason? Maybe the tension is too slack? However there is already considerable mast rake (curve) which I'm afraid will only increase if I try to tighten it. First time I was sailing, I didn't unfurl it at all, second time it didn't stuck, third time this happened...
4. There is some chafing on the jib halyard that got wound on the wire, but looks very superficial. Also some plastic got torn off from the block, but it doesn't seem to be a structural part of the block, so I'm leaving both as is I guess. Im I right?
5. I've read on some people using MRS wire tied to pullpit as a secondary backup forestay. How do you do it? My 26D has it attached to the same bolt as the forestay with furler, so I tried it but it gets caught when rolling the furler, so I had to remove it. Is there a way to tie it so it doesn't get in the way? I'd like to have a backup in case main forestay fails, don't want mast falling down on me...

[luis_sailing]

I am sure others will chime with lots of info. I believe it's 1/8th" but not larger than 1/4". I would take it to west marine and match size. Most west marine stores have a station where you can use the swdge tool to press the niko press fitting. It's easy to do. I would use stainless Not sure why it happened. I would live with the other damage you have

[captronr]

I would call Blue Water Yachts in Seattle and ask them the price of new. I wouldn't personally take a chance on swaging my own forestay--lots of potential downside if it fails.

On my X, since I have a furler, I use the jib halyard and secure it to the bow pulpit where the base of the mast bolt goes (in the travel position). Keeps it out of the way of the furler/sail and keeps it out of the way. Not sure it would keep the mast up if the forestay breaks, but it should help.

Ron

[romandesign]

I would call Blue Water Yachts in Seattle and ask them the price of new. I wouldn't personally take a chance on swaging my own forestay--lots of potential downside if it fails.

On my X, since I have a furler, I use the jib halyard and secure it to the bow pulpit where the base of the mast bolt goes (in the travel position). Keeps it out of the way of the furler/sail and keeps it out of the way. Not sure it would keep the mast up if the forestay breaks, but it should help.

Ron

I tried it with the MRS cable - it got in the way of the furler... Maybe the jib halyard will work, as it goes through the block and there's more clearance. I can try it next time... Question is how do I tension it then on the pulpit.

[sailboatmike]

Just use the spinnaker halyard as a backup to the forestay, simple and easy

[romandesign]

Just use the spinnaker halyard as a backup to the forestay, simple and easy

How should I adjust its tension then? Right now it's tied to the cleat on the bottom of the mast. Is there a way to tie it of securely to pulpit under tension?

[March]

The backup sailboatmike is suggesting is just that: a backup. The tension doesn't really matter. Tighten the halyard as much as you can, by attaching it to the pulpit--you won't be able to use it as a permanent solution. I also doubt that you would be able to use the roller furler either, before you replace the forestay, so whether it interferes with the forestay or not is a moot point,

The idea is, in case your forestay fails, the mast will not come down with a crash--which it won't since it's in he vertical position. It doesn't take a lot of tension to keep it as such

[dustoff]

Okay,
I'll pass along a lesson I learned the hard way. If something is tangled, stuck, or fouled, brute force is almost never the way to solve the problem. I've torn out mainsail grommets and sail sliders amongst other things that should have been resolved with a more patient approach. Hooking your furling line to your winch is way too much torque to resolve that kind of problem. Your best bet if you can't resolve it on the water, is just secure the issue as best you can to be safe and sort it out at the dock or on the hardstand.
As far as the replacement forestay. It must be marine stainless cable, unless you want to spend more $$ on advanced, racing grade, exotic standing rigging composites. There are several strings on the forum about the diameter, just check them, either choice will be safe and adequate. It is totally possible to do it yourself, but it requires some time, a lot of patience, proper tools, adequate research, and attention to detail.
I've replaced lifelines and side-stays with a manual nicopress tool I bought thru defender. There is nothing to it that is rocket science BUT,,, there are a lot of small details that are important, and little tricks, Getting the line tight around the thimble, and the appropriate distance from the thimble to the cable press fitting, and getting the exact distance and tension for the stay, are just a few.
If you're not comfortable with doing it yourself, I would highly recommend getting a bwyachts replacement or having a local sailboat rigging guy do it for you.
v/r
Dustoff

[Wind Chime]

Just use the spinnaker halyard as a backup to the forestay, simple and easy

How should I adjust its tension then? Right now it's tied to the cleat on the bottom of the mast. Is there a way to tie it of securely to pulpit under tension?

We use our spinnaker halyard as "back-up" headstay as well.

We installed a dedicated halyard tang about 18" above the forestay tang, and run the clip-end of the halyard around the pullpit tube and clip to itself, then tension off the halyard at the mast cleat. Just enough tension to take out the slack as you want the tension on the forestay not the back-up halyard. We have adjustable back stay as well that needs room to bend aft.

The gap between the headstay and spinnaker halyard is about 10" so the roller furling is free to move without fouling.

I've tested the back-up halyard on the trailer when raising the mast and the halyard seams to holds just fine as a jury rig (on the trailer), it's similar to the original Mast Raising System line.

If we ever did brake the forestay while on the water, I probably would also add the additional halyard we have at the forestay tang that we use to raise and lower the protective sail sock, having two rope forestays to limp home under power.

[sailboatmike]

As for the wire 1 x 19 ss wire is the only option IMHO, if you use the stuff that bends easier the breaking strain is much lower

4.0mm (5/32 in) 1 x 19 316 Stainless steel 1285Kg or 2833lbs breaking strain

4.0mm (5/32 in) 7 x 19 316 Stainless steel 907Kg or 2000lbs breaking strain

4.0mm (5/32 in) 7 x 7 316 Stainless steel 959Kg or 2115lbs breaking strain

1 x 19 is the stiffer stuff, I personally would never use anything else except on one of my little dinghies

Reference for information: http://www.ronstan.com.au/marine5/wirel ... ntable.asp

[Tomfoolery]

I've tested the back-up halyard on the trailer when raising the mast and the halyard seams to holds just fine as a jury rig (on the trailer), it's similar to the original Mast Raising System line.

And in fact, that's exactly what I use as my MRS line. I took the jib halyard off, since its only task was to work with the MRS, and when I added the spin halyard, it was no longer needed. So the spin halyard lives tied to the pulpit until needed for the spinnaker, or for mast lowering.

I'm not worried about the forestay, as it's new, 5/32" dia (original was 1/8"), and I keep an eye on it. Sailboats don't normally have any kind of backup anyway.

[romandesign]

I've tested the back-up halyard on the trailer when raising the mast and the halyard seams to holds just fine as a jury rig (on the trailer), it's similar to the original Mast Raising System line.

And in fact, that's exactly what I use as my MRS line. I took the jib halyard off, since its only task was to work with the MRS, and when I added the spin halyard, it was no longer needed. So the spin halyard lives tied to the pulpit until needed for the spinnaker, or for mast lowering.

I'm not worried about the forestay, as it's new, 5/32" dia (original was 1/8"), and I keep an eye on it. Sailboats don't normally have any kind of backup anyway.

I have a steel wire for MRS (as original in 1989 26D), but it's connected to the same bolt as the forestay. I tried tying it to pulpit, but it gets wrapped around the furling as there doesn't seem to be enough clearance on the top. I could maybe use jib halyard, but it goes though the block then the small attached block below the forestay attachment point, so as it is below, it will get in a way of the jib when unfurled. That's why I was asking

[Wind Chime]

Romadesign; by the looks of your rig in the photo, you have 2 choices.
1) add a second tang above the forestay tang (such as many of us have done to accommodate a spinnaker halyard).
2) attach a short (12") pony line between your existing tang and the turning block. This might get the halyard far enough forward and away from the furling extrusion that it does not foul when rotating the headsail on the furler.

Darry

[romandesign]

Romadesign; by the looks of your rig in the photo, you have 2 choices.
1) add a second tang above the forestay tang (such as many of us have done to accommodate a spinnaker halyard).
2) attach a short (12") pony line between your existing tang and the turning block. This might get the halyard far enough forward and away from the furling extrusion that it does not foul when rotating the headsail on the furler.

Darry

Can you please elaborate on the pony line? I'm not sure I understand how it would work, the geometry is not clear to me.

[Wind Chime]

Romadesign; by the looks of your rig in the photo, you have 2 choices.
1) add a second tang above the forestay tang (such as many of us have done to accommodate a spinnaker halyard).
2) attach a short (12") pony line between your existing tang and the turning block. This might get the halyard far enough forward and away from the furling extrusion that it does not foul when rotating the headsail on the furler.

Darry

Can you please elaborate on the pony line? I'm not sure I understand how it would work, the geometry is not clear to me.

Similar to a "tack line". Sometimes referred to as a "tack pennant". http://www.holiday23.co.za/Fine%20tunin ... Furler.htm

12 inch long metal wire (same size wire as the forestay) with loops on both ends. One loop goes around your mast tang (same place as your forestay roller furling is attached) the other end second loop goes around your turning block of your "spare" halyard.

This 12 inches gets it away from the top of the roller furling extrusion, so it won't foul when rotating the Furler.