Tie Down Bleeder Valve Question

[Chip Hindes]

So now, in trying to bleed the brakes, the second bleeder valve twisted off without loosening. One bled, one broken, six more to go. The next two seem as frozen as the one which twisted off, so for now I've quit before I fall further behind.

These are brass screwed into the aluminum caliper housing. Soaking overnight with Liquid Wrench appears to have no beneficial effect.

My call to Tie Down got me yet another voice mail and a recorded promise that all tech support requests are answered in 24 hours or less. I'll believe that when it happens. In the meantime, does anyone have a success story? Heat, cold, some combination of the two?

As background, this installation is just over a year old, has been in the water maybe 14-16 times, only twice in salt water and after each of those was immediatley and thoroughly flushed with fresh water.

[Chip Hindes]

So now, a favorable report on Tie Down.

Tech Suppoort got back to me within three hours. No suggestions as to how to get the bleeders loose without destroying them, but they are sending me eight new bleeders UPS.

These retail for $4.99 each from Champion. Though it won't compare to the labor I'll be expending if I have to drill out and replace seven bleeders, it's not insignificant, I appreciate it, and in fairness I feel bound to report the good as well as the bad. Although our previous exchange was not mentioned, I'm guessing the Tech Support guy remembered the name.

Of course, it the brake hadn't failed in the first place...

[PeteC]

What do you plan to do to keep the new ones from seizing (Never-Seez?)?

[Chip Hindes]

That's exactly what I had in mind.

I'm sure it wouldn't do to get Never Seeze inside the system. However, only the pointy part at the end is part of the seal; the threaded part is outside the system, so it should be pretty easy to do so.

I just hope I can get them loose without breaking them and having to drill them out and retap. Keeping the metal chips out of the system won't be quite so easy.

[PeteC]

One thing you might try is to set up a vacuum line to suction out the chips, dirt, etc along with some of the old brake fluid.

I made a brake suction system using a Harbor Freight Air Vacuum Pump (3952-0VGA, $15), a Mason jar and 2 hoses. One hose goes from the vacuum pump to the jar lid. the other goes from the jar lid to the area you want to suction or to the bleeder valve for beeding. Of course you need an air compressor to operate the vacum pummp.

I have used this to suck junk out of the bottom of a brake master cylinder, as well as bleeding the brakes on the Mac trailer. Actually you probably should replace the brake fluid yearly on the trailer as moisture seems to find a way into an exposed system easily.

You may need to put teflon tape around the bleeder threads to prevent air from getting sucked around the threads and giving a false indication of air in the lines. The teflon would prevent the bleeder valves from seizing too, and you wouldn't have to worry about getting Never-Seez in the system.

[Frank C]

Wonder if teflon tape will survive the heat in a brake system?

Also, I've seen postings about novel methods for bleeding trailer brakes, but I've never heard of using an air compressor!

[kmclemore]

What do you plan to do to keep the new ones from seizing (Never-Seez?)?

That's exactly what I had in mind.

Why not use teflon tape? Won't hurt the fluid at all.
[edit - arrgh.. Frank & Pete.. you beat me to it.. and yes, it will survive just fine - I've used it for that purpose in the past.]

As for bleeding, I use this pressure-bleeding device on all sorts of vehicles.. inexpensive and works very nicely. Not sure if you can get them here in the States, but you can certainly mail-order one from the UK. Comes with caps that fit many vehicles, or you can easily make your own for the occasional odd-sized one that you hit.


The same company also makes a very nice tuning tool as well. It's a 'clear' sparkplug - tune the carbs till you get a nice blue flame and you've got the mixture it spot-on! I use two when I'm doing multi-carb setups, one in either end of the motor. (Not sure how it works on 2-strokes though!)

[Chip Hindes]

Teflon tape will almost certainly last longer than any of the other rubber parts.

However, according to the description the bleeders are straight thread; as nearly as I can determine 1/8-27 NSPT. There's no clearance on these threads as there is on taper threads. Teflon tape won't help; it will simply be sliced up as you screw the fitting in. That's assuming you can screw it in at all with the tape messing things up.

I was able to get the two fittings I tried loose by first heating them with a torch, then freezing them with a quick shot of freon, then immediately removing them. Don't know if they would have broken loose anyway, but since this works I'll not be trying it with anything less or different.

I tried the Never Seez and it appears not to hold up to brake fluid; it just sort of washes away. I'll put it on anyway but it appears the best thing to do might be to just break the fittings loose once in awhile, say maybe the beginning and end of each season.

[Harry van der Meer]

Chip,

Are you using bearing buddies on your TieDown SS disk hubs? I did and lost one of them on the first trip. The only thing I can think of is that there was too much pressure build-up.

Called Champion and they said that they do not recommend bearing buddies on disk brakes (I don't know why they did not warn me about this when I ordered the brakes and bearing buddies) for reason of pressure build-up. Of course I also found this in their documention (aterwards)

I will now remove the BB on the one wheel that still has it on and replace with the plug and cap that came with the brakes.

Any suggestions?

[Harry van der Meer]

2nd question:

The solenoid installed on the disk brake system requires the electrical system to be energized. This worries me, particularly in salt water launches.

Any experience with this?

[Chip Hindes]

I have the original Bearing Buddies on the original axle, but when I tried to order them for the new axle, Champion told me "not recommended."

With about 5000 miles on mine, I haven't actually lost a seal yet, but this spring I found water in one of the Bearing Buddie hubs and had to replace the bearing. The Champion axle with the grease fittings and rubber plugs was fine. My guess is I had too little pressure in mine, as though there was water in the hub, there was no evidence of grease passing the seal in the other direction.

I don't believe there's any problem leaving the electricals for the trailer energized; only the lights are immersed, and my original '00 trailer lights are the Wesbar sealed units; there's no problem immersing them when energized. Mine's been under maybe 12-14 times, though only four times in salt water. Though recently I noticed I have burned out one of the original combo side marker lights so I guess that one's due for replacement. There's no water in it so I guess it just burned out. You can't replace individual bulbs, you have to do the whole unit, but it's only $7 at Champion so, one in four seasons, I think overall is worth it. I always made sure I turned the taillights off before backing into the water as the side marker lights are not sealed, and I've replaced the whole assembly three times anyway. Most recently I splurged for sealed LED units so I'm hoping they'll last more than one dunking.

[Harry van der Meer]

Thanks Chip, very helpful.

The seals on these new units are actually quite good. No grease leakage after 45 miles at 60 mph. With my old drums I would have some grease on the boat and on the outside of the rim.

Just noticed some brake dust on the inside of the rims. Hopefully this is just from the pads settling.

[Chip Hindes]

On the Bearing Buddies, I think a little grease leaking past the seals indicates they're working like they should. As long as the pressure is internal, and grease is leaking out, water can't leak in. That would be my theory, anyway. If it makes the boat messy, I can assure you cleaning that up is a lot easier than replacing bearings. I'm not sure it would be a problem anyway as the new fenders are considerably wider than the stock fenders.

It appears the Champion system works on the principle of "Let the water in, then blow it out by pumping in new grease with the grease gun." I guess this should work, but I wonder how ofter you have to do this.

So far, in only a single season it's Champion 2, Bearing Buddies 1. I'll give it a few more seasons. If it appears the Champion system is better, it shouldn't be too hard to retrofit.

[Divecoz]

much of what makes it work are the microscopic glass beads the lube has its purpose/delivery system. . . but the beads keep things from seizing up.