Tacking in high winds

[Baha]

Tops on my shopping list is a top-down furler for the asymmetrical.

[BOAT]

Maybe the go is having a second forestay for a hank on jib and keeping the genoa on the furler, get the best of both worlds or maybe a second furler like some one here do

Only clipper drivers know how to do that stuff.

For us mortals that won't work because the second forestay would interfere with whatever your flying from the first forestay. It's hard enough to get my 175 Genoa around the mast which is 10 feet away from the forestay - how can I get my 175 Genoa around another forestay that is only 12 inches away? If I run the Genoa on the second forestay then the problem is how do I get the hank on jib on the first forestay around the second forestay? One sail is gonna bind up.

This is the kind of stuff that few ever tackle because it takes a bit of mechanical ingenuity to really pull off real multiple working headsails unless you run a huge 10 foot bowsprit and have flyjibs - otherwise your need a mechanical device to flop the sails over to the other side - that's why Highlander can run this kind of stuff - he has imagination. Highlander runs TWO furling jibs on the front of his boat - but even with his setup I think he already mentioned that in heavy sea conditions he furls in the forward jib to get it around the second jib when he tacks. He would need to tell us how he gets one sail to go behind the other when he turns the boat. (technically, his second jib is a forestay sail because I think he runs his jib on a bowsprit - if he is running his second jib behind the forestay on the forecastle it would be considered a storm jib if he called that beast a sloop, but since he calls it a clipper I must call his second jib a forestay sail?)

Anyways , what your describing is a clipper rig and the only clipper driver I know on the site is Highlander - you would need to ask him about that sort of thing.

I go out with a clipper driver here in Oceanside about once a year and he has three headsails - a jib, a forestay sail, and a fly jib in that order. His bowsprit is 18 feet, and all three sails are self tending - in other words - there is so much room between the sails that when he comes about the sails lock right back into the same opposite position they were in on the previous tack - this is accomplished because there is only one jib sheet on each headsail and that sheet goes to a single block on the forcastle back to the wheelhouse - just one line to control the jib - but you need a LOT of room to fly a jib that way from the middle of the boat - there must be a lot space between the sails.

If I ever do make the change from a Genoa to a working jib I can tell you I will not mess around with two jib sheets anymore - I will use a self tending single line rig.

[Ixneigh]

I now have a so called cruising spinnaker set off a removable four foot long bow sprit. I installed a dedicated Halyard for this sail. Howdo you think that would compare to Highlanders setup?
Ix

[BOAT]

I have that too - it's a halyard that is mounted a few feet higher up the mast than the forestay and because my genoa is inside of that line it does not interfere - but any sail I try to hank on to that line is not going to clear the genoa - now, it will clear if it's NOT a hank on sail like a kite or spinnaker - the spinnaker is designed to fly in front of the forward stays so it does not interfere with anything - you can fly a spinnaker AND a Genoa at the same time, although most tend to use one or the other, still, it can be done.

You don't really furl a kite on a stay like you do a genoa or a jib - most folks "dowse" the spinnaker with a sock.

I think captain beene might have better info on flying the MAC spinnaker than I do as I have not yet purchased one, (but I intend to very soon).

[Highlander]

FYI
U cannot reef a spinnaker or Drifter or like head sail on a spin furler or zero type furler , it is either furled all the way in or out .there is no reefing !! same as in a sock .


J
PS Boat, My spin or drifter is 4ft out on my bowsprit , my genny is 3ft out on my bowsprit, my jib is on the bow , my Storm sail is anchored aft of the forward hatch , hope that helps u guy,s all my 4 head sails r mounted on furlers

[BOAT]

Thanks John,

I did not even know that people put kites on a furler. That's a new one for me - I want a kite but I think I will bag it because I use the trailer all the time and I am not retired yet.
I assume you sail into the wind with the gennoa and the jib at the same time, cutter style, right?

The question is: how do you get the gennoa around the jib when you tack? Do you pull it through with the sheets or do you furl the gennoa in a little to swap it to the other side when you tack?

How is that whole process of tacking done?


I really need the kite because sometimes I just start the morning sailing straight out to sea because the wind is from the north in the AM - and then by noon I'm 10 miles out and the wind starts to shift to the west and I need to sail back home - - a kite would make the downwind leg back to shore go a lot faster.

[Highlander]

Thanks John,

I did not even know that people put kites on a furler. That's a new one for me - I want a kite but I think I will bag it because I use the trailer all the time and I am not retired yet.

yep kite furler on the end of the 4ft bowsprit
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... fa2b06.jpg

I assume you sail into the wind with the gennoa and the jib at the same time, cutter style, right?

yep just like this
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 4942-1.jpg

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 4942-4.jpg

as u can see I can submarine my bow really deep look at the water fall coming outa my Genny when the bow raises
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 0_2494.jpg

The question is: how do you get the gennoa around the jib when you tack? Do you pull it through with the sheets or do you furl the gennoa in a little to swap it to the other side when you tack?

depends on the weather conditions light winds reef the genny 2/3rds then tack & unreef genny after Jib is set then reset Genny , in heavier winds fully furl genny tack then set Jib & unfurl Genny & reset

How is that whole process of tacking done?

When the swells r really deep & close together I have raised my bow right out of the water in the same process buried my stern deep as seen in this pic but never got any water inside the aft berth I guess because the forward motion is creating a vacuum !!
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 11-3-1.jpg

I really need the kite because sometimes I just start the morning sailing straight out to sea because the wind is from the north in the AM - and then by noon I'm 10 miles out and the wind starts to shift to the west and I need to sail back home - - a kite would make the downwind leg back to shore go a lot faster.

Yep in really light winds the Genny & Jib r useless as the cloth is too heavy u r lucky to get 1-2kts , on a 3/4oz Kite u,ll get 3-5kts or more depending on how heavy ur boat is loaded & when the light gusts come up u really notice the diff. Geoff "Beene" & Leon & I have also done some heavy sailing with the kite , but beware

J

[BOAT]

It’s good to see that headsail full of water in that picture:



That tells me the MAC M is way more stable under high wind pressure than even I previously thought – a proper ship will bury the nose into the waves before it will lay down – that’s good to see. That’s pure hoespower and the boat is taking just fine. I always thought a boat built to go over bumps at freeway speeds for over a thousand miles at a time was always gonna be a lot stronger than a boat that never sees anything past 30 miles per hour over water. (That's why the Hunters were delaminating after 10 years on the water - all resin and no strength). Those chopper gun boats with one inch thick hulls makes for a heavy boat that is just way too spongy and soft for my tastes, but that's another subject.

!

Now, about that kite – what can I get that is very light and easy to use on a stock rig? I just want to hook up some lines and grab a chute in a bag and throw it out the window – nothing fancy – no furling, no socks.

Is the stock MAC spin to heavy? Do I need to go to a custom?

[Highlander]

Boat
In this short vid we Geoff "Beene" & Leon & myself sitting on Geoff,s boat rafted up to Rocky,s boat "Dreamer I loaned Rocky my Mac cruising spinnaker for the day u can see him setting it up here nothin fancy
http://youtu.be/Hq23A3PpYSI

In this short vid u can see my standard Mac cruising Spinnaker flying from Rocky,s Boat & me makin fun of Rocky & Leon trying to catch up with Geoff & I
http://youtu.be/QJ6PREBtUHg

These Vids r compliments of "Beene"

J

[ALX357]

Instead of fighting a tack, just jibe about the other way. You will lose a bit of way, but not risk getting in chains and being blown back. I used to sail with just a Genoa up, no main at all, and found it easier to jibe about than tack, so even with a mainsail, it works as well.

[beene]

Boat
In this short vid we Geoff "Beene" & Leon & myself sitting on Geoff,s boat rafted up to Rocky,s boat "Dreamer I loaned Rocky my Mac cruising spinnaker for the day u can see him setting it up here nothin fancy
http://youtu.be/Hq23A3PpYSI

In this short vid u can see my standard Mac cruising Spinnaker flying from Rocky,s Boat & me makin fun of Rocky & Leon trying to catch up with Geoff & I
http://youtu.be/QJ6PREBtUHg

These Vids r compliments of "Beene"

J

As are the photo's

Good times J

G

[BOAT]

Looks like that kite works real good in light wind - the wind was light when you did the rocky vid - right?

[Highlander]

Looks like that kite works real good in light wind - the wind was light when you did the rocky vid - right?

Yep u,ll notice there,s hardly a ripple in the water

J

[beene]

Looks like that kite works real good in light wind - the wind was light when you did the rocky vid - right?

Kite works well up to 15kts

Running just that in 11kts I can get over 6kts boat speed

Go to 10:28 in this vid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPne_NQjtug

G

[Ixneigh]

I have to scroung a staysail from someplace then my light air set up should be good until i break that bowsprit.
Its been pretty windy since i put the boat in.
Ix