Real rescue with 26X

[Neo]

Hmmm.... Considering they'll be unconscious and weigh 300lbs I think it's a bit tight either side of the OB
Maybe if we had a stronger Mast arch we could attach the mainsheet and haul them over the OB?
Maybe I should get round to building that swim-out platform. Might be handy in this situation

[sailboatmike]

If you can get then draped over the outboard you could always raise the outboard to help pull them up

[Neo]

Yes I guess whatever we do it's gonna get kinda messy

[Herschel]

I'm going to have to some how get a line, a jib sheet end, mainsheet, something, on the victim. Without going over myself. That will be the hardest part. Assuming i can do that, now i have the victim attached to the boat.

I make a point to keep my mooring lines attached to the boat at all times (properly secured, of course). I find that very useful if the need arises to tie up or come along side another boat quickly. They are there and ready to go. I would surmise that the two stern lines could be used to at least get a line over to the MOB. The need to prevent an unintended meet up with the prop is, of course, paramount.

On another aspect of this discussion, I hope to see some dialog about the possible use of the unhanked mainsail as a lifting device as discussed previously. This could be examined ashore by backing a pick up truck up perpendicular to the gunwhale of a trailered Mac, swing out the unhanked main sail until it covers the tailgate of the truck (simulating the approximate place of the waterline when in the water), putting a small person into the body of the sail and then cranking up the head of the sail with the winch, and assess how the lift develops. If it goes well with a small person, try working up to a full size man and see what dynamics develop. I won't have my Mac back on its trailer for about a month, but plan to give it go then. Water is a little too cool right now to suggest trying the real thing in the water even for Florida.

One issue that I can foresee is the securing of the mainsheet and the stability of the boom. I don't have a topping lift. I do have a booomkicker that provides enough strength to hold up the boom with just the weight of the boom and sail on it, but not the weight of a person. Not sure how the boom/boomkicker combo would react to this drill. Having the boom crutch in place might be necessary to stabilize the boom. That adds one more step to the process that is already getting complicated.

[jstyers]

Very interesting discussion that I haven't given much thought to previously. I don't have a vang presently, I think I could drop the main, secure the boom to the aft cabin stantion on the opposite side from the victim, and use the main sheet tackle, still secured to the traveler, to pull them either up the side or through the transom. With the main down I would expect to be using the motor so I suspect I would be bringing them in over the side. I'll play around with this some this winter now that I'm thinking about it.

[yukonbob]

I think the main issue with using the main sail over the side is it will most likely get hung up or shredded on the stanchion(s). Also lifting the associated water up with said system would also create weight issues. This would work better with some sort of web sling attached along the gunwhale while utilizing the main halyard. On another note for those single handing and those wanting to be in compliance your boarding ladder is required to be accessible and deployable from the water.

[Neo]

I think the main issue with using the main sail over the side is it will most likely get hung up or shredded on the stanchion(s). Also lifting the associated water up with said system would also create weight issues. This would work better with some sort of web sling attached along the gunwhale while utilizing the main halyard.

I second this. I don't think using a giant odd shaped sail and a boom (thats too weak) is going to work.... Would be better to just throw a rope lasso (or something far easier to manage) off the stern. Haul by hand and use a winch.

[yukonbob]

http://www.sailmagazine.com/cruising/mob-retrieval/

Here is a good site for some methods. The pre-looped webbing and biner is quicker to deploy than rigging a bridle and is easier to get on an unconscious person. As for the webbed retrieval sling...they sell for 3k plus, google sea scoopa.

http://marine.the-justgroup.com/shop/ma ... ry-ladder/

Found a cheaper one.

[Ixneigh]

The forgoing assumes that the water isnt 34 degrees too.
A person overboard who can't assist you is about the worst case. On a small boat like the mac they are less likely to be injured going over the side in a harness. The boat will slow right down. Harness line length is a subject of conjecture. When I do wear one I prefer a very short one used with a jackline.
How did they get in the water? The only reason to leave the cockpit are sail changes. Or maybe an unexpected problem. Line fouled or something. I've had that happen to me.
Unexpected dive overboard due to loss of balance.
The more used to the boat you are the easier stuff like that becomes. Ive had the boat 5 years and I'm now just getting so I feel used to the boat and the movements. And I use it alot. Familiarity with its abilities is very very valuable as it reduces surprises. I have to unlearn a lifetime of keelboat habits. Not easy. I still run into issues. The more I forget the better MacGregor sailor I become. Reducing surprises is a good way to keep from going overboard. Familiarity with the boat and equipment and trusting it is a must. Sailing witth someone is a huge safety feature. Another person can act as a brake before you do something stupid. It reduces your workload and helps keep you alert. In fact I feel sailing alone to be one of the most dangerous things you can do. Like hiking scuba or skydiving alone. One screw up one bad fall Bad injury, so long Charlie. Ive been a life long solo sailor and if something happens to me i certainly won't cry foul. Since I have no help Ive tried to make the boat easy to use. The sails now reef easily and I know how to make the boat help me. So I don't put it off. When I first got the boat the stock reefing system left me fighting the boom end to pull the line tight while the boat tried to gybe. I nearly went overboard when I had the boat sans ballast in the wrong conditions and it was rolling violently.
It's a battle to keep everything secure all the time so you don't have to rush up to catch a loose item on deck.
The other way people wind up off the boat is due to violent wave Actions. Thats less of an issue since few people use these boats in big, open waters and even then not too far from a protected harbor.
Ix

[Neo]

...The sails now reef easily

How? ... Could you start a new thread to explain how you've achieved this?

It really sounds like you live onboard? .... If that's the case I seriously envy you

[JotaErre]

Bring back someone who has fallen into the sea? I've thought about it several times, and I think that, in an X (without a mainsheet rail), I would use the mainsheet and the boom. I would set the mainsheet free from its holding point in front of the wheel, attach a float ring to it, turn the boom 90º, "fish" the person overboard and pull the mainsheet.

[1st Sail]

No joking matter for sure. With the high free board of a Mac and limited stern access I'm reminded of an old golf joke. Husband comes home after his weekly round of golf with his buddies. Wife asks how was his round. He replies, 'worst round ever'.

There was an old post here year's ago about an individual that caught a 200+ Halibut on his way to Alaska. He tied a line to the tail and secured to the stern cleat and another line to the head and then winched up the side. He was unable to get the fish in the cock pit and ended using it for rail ballast as he sailed to port. Needless to say that would be a terrible way to secure an individual let alone fail to on board an individual.

If the boom were to fail using the main halyard / boom the entire load could be transferred to the top of the mast. MacGregor states it only take 135lbs of load to heel the boat 90º. I think the only alternative is using some combination of sling and winches either over the stern or side to on board a MOB would be a safe solution. In any event an MOB with a Mac will be very difficult.

Crazy solution needing criticism to achieve sanity:
Possibly-
1. An emergency swim platform with hanging brackets attached to the transom wall/ladder and positioned at the water line may give you half a fighting chance. You may be able to float the MOB on to the platform then using a harness (make shift or not) to lift the MOB into the motor well etc.
2.Boom centered and secured with a preventer
3.main halyard secured to end of boom
4.traveler attached to end of boom and harness assuming 3:1/4:1
5.jib halyard attached to bow and tensioned to share load with forestay
6. use the traveler to lift and hoist the MOB over the motor and into the well/rear of cockpit

Risks:
1. mast inversion (need the engineers to calc this one)
2. boom failure (limited as the main halyard and traveler loads vectors are some what aligned
3. limited work area at stern of a Mac
4. time to rig
5. possibly no steering control during rescue
6. absolutely no OB power
7. no sails up to minimize heeling or maintain heading in relation to wind and wave direction

Benefits:
1. if any
2. loads are directed to stern and somewhat manageable via the traveler

thumbs up?
thumbs down?






I would seriously consider centering the boom with a preventer, then securing the main halyard to the end of the boom

[1st Sail]

No joking matter for sure. With the high free board of a Mac and limited stern access I'm reminded of an old golf joke. Husband comes home after his weekly round of golf with his buddies. Wife asks how was his round. He replies, 'worst round ever'.

There was an old post here year's ago about an individual that caught a 200+ Halibut on his way to Alaska. He tied a line to the tail and secured to the stern cleat and another line to the head and then winched up the side. He was unable to get the fish in the cock pit and ended using it for rail ballast as he sailed to port. Needless to say that would be a terrible way to secure an individual let alone fail to on board an individual.

If the boom were to fail using the main halyard / boom the entire load could be transferred to the top of the mast. MacGregor states it only take 135lbs of load to heel the boat 90º. I think the only alternative is using some combination of sling and winches either over the stern or side to on board a MOB would be a safe solution. In any event an MOB with a Mac will be very difficult.

Crazy solution needing criticism to achieve sanity:
Possibly-
1. An emergency swim platform with hanging brackets attached to the transom wall/ladder and positioned at the water line may give you half a fighting chance. You may be able to float the MOB on to the platform then using a harness (make shift or not) to lift the MOB into the motor well etc.
2.Boom centered and secured with a preventer
3.main halyard secured to end of boom
4.traveler attached to end of boom and harness assuming 3:1/4:1
5.jib halyard attached to bow and tensioned to share load with forestay
6. use the traveler to lift and hoist the MOB over the motor and into the well/rear of cockpit

Risks:
1. mast inversion (need the engineers to calc this one)
2. boom failure (limited as the main halyard and traveler loads vectors are some what aligned
3. limited work area at stern of a Mac
4. time to rig
5. possibly no steering control during rescue
6. absolutely no OB power
7. no sails up to minimize heeling or maintain heading in relation to wind and wave direction

Benefits:
1. if any
2. loads are directed to stern and somewhat manageable via the traveler

thumbs up?
thumbs down?






I would seriously consider centering the boom with a preventer, then securing the main halyard to the end of the boom

[NiceAft]

Two posts of the golf joke, and I still don't get it
And nope, I'm not a golfer.
Ray

[Neo]

Sorry I don't get the golf joke either .... Also 1st Sail you might like to delete a few repeat posts

I think without a lifting harness (on the 300lb MOB) and a swim platform off the stern I think we have no chance of successfully achieving this. I just can't see the boom setup working (for too many reasons). If I was in this situation right now I would throw a line off the stern (through a rudder cleat) and use a winch to raise the MOB at least some way out of the water. What I'd achive after that would be anyone's guess
But how would I get a harness or loop onto the MOB? ...If I get into the water I risk not being able to get back out again (without a swim platform).

Would the mast arch hold 300lb ??? .... I doubt it

If you can get then draped over the outboard you could always raise the outboard to help pull them up

If I could use the mast arch this is what I'd try ... Nice tactic Mike