RADAR UNIT !

[BOAT]

I met some folks on an X boat visiting here from Arizona once and he had radar on the mast arch - he said it was a great tool for crossing the san pedro channel to catalina at night.

I have been sailing in the oceans at night all my life so I am sort of accustomed to it but now that I have a MAC there is one thing that scares me - power boating at high speed at night - can these radar units tell us if there is a log or a tire in the water that we are going to run into when we are at high speed? I don't have radar and never have so I don't know anything about them but I sure would like to avoid hitting something floating in the water at high speed.

Can radar units see that kind of thing?

[Jimmyt]

Powering at high speed in the dark sounds like Russian Roulette with an automatic weapon. Maybe because our area has a lot of semi floating and floating debris - along with the lone piling or two left over from a long pier that was mostly demolished by a hurricane. Had a buddy pick off a piling in the dark in an 8 ft hydroplane at speed when we were younger. He sported a steering wheel shaped bruise on his chest for quite a while after - lucky it didn't kill him. I've seen entire tree trunks floating along with just a small portion visible. Dangerous stuff even in daylight.

Technology is great, but not sure I trust it at 19.5 mph in the dark. Guess I'm just a chicken.

[BOAT]

Powering at high speed in the dark sounds like Russian Roulette with an automatic weapon. Maybe because our area has a lot of semi floating and floating debris - along with the lone piling or two left over from a long pier that was mostly demolished by a hurricane. Had a buddy pick off a piling in the dark in an 8 ft hydroplane at speed when we were younger. He sported a steering wheel shaped bruise on his chest for quite a while after - lucky it didn't kill him. I've seen entire tree trunks floating along with just a small portion visible. Dangerous stuff even in daylight.

Technology is great, but not sure I trust it at 19.5 mph in the dark. Guess I'm just a chicken.

Well, I'm not much of a power boater either, but my question was: can the radar SEE it? Will radar see things in the water that I could run into when I am under power? Is radar that fast and can is see that well? I don't know much about either so I wanted to know if radar can make me safer at night under power. This is the first time I have had a "power boat" - so I was wondering.

[Gazmn]

Powering at high speed in the dark sounds like Russian Roulette with an automatic weapon. Maybe because our area has a lot of semi floating and floating debris - along with the lone piling or two left over from a long pier that was mostly demolished by a hurricane. Had a buddy pick off a piling in the dark in an 8 ft hydroplane at speed when we were younger. He sported a steering wheel shaped bruise on his chest for quite a while after - lucky it didn't kill him. I've seen entire tree trunks floating along with just a small portion visible. Dangerous stuff even in daylight.

Technology is great, but not sure I trust it at 19.5 mph in the dark. Guess I'm just a chicken.

Well, I'm not much of a power boater either, but my question was: can the radar SEE it? Will radar see things in the water that I could run into when I am under power? Is radar that fast and can is see that well? I don't know much about either so I wanted to know if radar can make me safer at night under power. This is the first time I have had a "power boat" - so I was wondering.

While radar can help a careful Capt. It does not replace prudence and good judgement anymore than awd steering would help a dumbass speeder in snow & ice conditions

& to BOAT & dxg- Yes I believe that the new radars would pick up certain debris, at least intermittently. But speed is not your friend in the dark or fog.

That being said, I think it's at a price point, minimal power draw & radiation level that even trailer sailors like us can entertain the various broadband / solid state radar platforms coming out that would augment our already happy nautical predicament

So Highlander - What did ya get?!

[dxg4848]

I am also wondering what Boat asked. How small of an object can radar see floating in the water. Can it reliably see small logs or tire for example?

Even sailing it would be nice not have to be on constant lookout for something in the water ahead of boat.

[Jimmyt]

Maybe a combination of forward scanning sonar and radar would allow you to see if you had a problem coming, but I don't think the combination of technology and humanity would be able to figure out it's there; and what sort of action to take if you're running at planing speed in the dark.

I'm like Boat. If there is a technology that would sound an alarm for a 3 foot section of tree trunk floating in the water at even 50 yards; I'd like to know what it is (and how many boat bucks it would relieve me of..).

And hitting it at sailing speed is a whole "nuther" thing (as we southerners say); compared to hitting it while planing under power. Although neither is fun when I think about it.

By the way Gaz, I'm trying to graduate from dumbass before I hit 60. Not looking too good.

[BOAT]

I have a Raymarine Q24C and a Seaview SM-18-R Mast Mount. I'm new to the boat and last year was a busy year for mods (wheel-pilot, a97 mfd, bwy enclosure, solar, hot water, shower in head, kicker mount, shore power, bottom paint, windlass/bow-roller/mantus-35, learning to fiberglass, etc.), and the ice forced me out before I got to work on the radar. Over the winter, I have run the cable from the mast step through the 26x headliner and back to the pedestal, which experience indicates is by far the difficult part of the job.

The Q24C and SM-18-R combined weigh less than 20 lbs. If the mast can handle three headsails, or an admiral in a hammock, it should be fine. Plus I really don't want a stern-pole ... shade on the solar panels, more weight aft. I mostly sail Lake Superior, Lake Michigan, but I have spent a fair amount of time in your general area (Everett, Anacortes). The fog/haze, the amount of boat traffic and all those trees that keep falling in the water. You are the expert, but if you're spending more time overnighting, starting early, ending late, radar seems prudent.

I know of only two detailed examples online of mast-mounting a radar on a Macgregor

1. R.E.D. - already noted. They mounted it just above the spreaders, but based on their site, they don't trailer much, so once they hook it up, it seems to stay hooked up for the season.

2. Rich Johnson https://goo.gl/IAICNL
The details are here (opens a pdf): https://goo.gl/7O1DTV
Here is a photo: http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/36844

The photo indicates he mounted his only maybe four feet above the deck to facilitate taking on/off for trailering, putting it on after raising the mast, and to allow one to go without the radar if it's not needed. Obviously, it could be mounted 2-3 feet higher (as high as one can reach) and still get all of those benefits.

Must thank rsvpasap here for jumping in when we needed help - i can tell my his avatar he did it in a hurry to help us guys out - so up ther in the big lakes it sounds like you do deal with a lot of tree problems? does the radar help keep you from hitting the logs? we are all interested in that part of the radar capabilities.

[TimLa]

Back in the 80's, I was a radar maintenance crew chief in the Air Force. My info is very outdated (ran a megawatt AN-TPS43E with a 33 foot dish), but the theory is the same.

Yes, the radar will probably see it, but probably not on every sweep until you get closer - odds are you'll not see it at 4 miles, but as you get much closer the odds go up. In the TPS-43, we used a couple techniques to improve sensitivity without increasing the noise much - we transmit a 13 bit code, and the closer the echo is to that code (or the reverse of it), the higher the odds that the target was real. This is called pulse compression. We used a dedicated CPU built out of discrete components that could process about 17 million targets at once, real time - Fast forward 30 years, the algorithms and cpu speed are far, far better than back in the day, and you've got CW radar rather than pulsed, which is a whole different breed of cat.

-T

[BOAT]

Hey Tim, what do you think about the specs on this unit?


ANTENNA
Peak Output Power 4 kW
Type ø488 mm Radome (19 inch)
RF TRANSCEIVER
Frequency 9410 ± 30 MHz
Range Scales 0.125 to 24 nm
Antenna Rotation Speed 24 rpm

It's called a furono 1st watch wireless

http://www.furuno.com/special/en/wireless/radar/



It looks like a nice solution for a MAC - does it use the pulsing thingy and CW and bit codes or whatever 'stuff' that you think is good?

[Highlander]

Gazmn
I bought Raymarine ES98 MFD with Quantum Chirp Sonar & Quantum Radar Radome with both ethernet cable + wifi
http://www.raymarine.com/content/?id=13531

ES98 MFD is a 9" Screen
http://www.raymarine.com/view/?id=12164

Chirp downvision sonar
http://www.raymarine.com/uploadedImages ... PT-DVS.jpg

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... alUsxXUKsQ

These new broadband HD Colour Radars r really amazing Raymarine has a simular video link on u-tube & chirp is supposed to be even better I also got Navionics + US/Canada Maps thrown into the package deal

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... x6GSIewUkA

http://www.yachtingworld.com/yachts-and ... logy-71168

Anyway u still have to b virgulent even with Radar as it is only as good as its operator as Gasmn said he uses his all the time even in daylight so as to keep on top of it " the better u get at reading radar at a glimpse"
remember if ur r running at high speed in the dark & u see another boat on ur radar coming @ u at high speed , u don,t know if he has radar or if he does is he using it or even paying attention ! could b a dumb ass & relying on his auto pilot !! or even worse just stupid drunk or one of these don,t worry I know what I,m doing kinda guy,s ! & I,ve had near misses doing 10-12knotts in the dark with a big search light on coming up on boats with no Nav lights on doing illegal business I presume , I would not recommend doing more that Hull speed 6 knots in the dark even with a search light unless it was a full moon lit up night
Jeez I must B gettin old or wiser or something

J

[Highlander]

BOAT
At 4KW is that not gonna draw a lot of batt power ! & I don,t think,s its a MFD unit strictly Radar , but it doe,s have some nice feature,s

J

[BOAT]

That's no fun - so does the radar 'see' the log in the water or not?? How come the 'Catalina Express' boat in the San Pedro Channel can go 36 knots speed to Avalon at night and I'm not even allowed to go 13??? What's up with that?? I want to go faster at night! (I never had a power boat before so I could never do that before! ) So your saying I still can't do it? Seems like a waste of that big thing on the back of the boat.

I guess I will just do what I always do and just sail at night with the horn and the spotlights - no fun - you guys are no fun. I thought all you guys in Key West were running around all over the place at night going 30 MPH bar hopping. Now you tell me I can't go over SIX? (no fun at all )


(WHAT THE HECK IS AN MFD?)

[grady]

Multi Function Display. Used more in aviation than marine. There a PFD is a Primary Flight Display not Personal Flotation Device.

[Highlander]

Boat
'Catalina Express' she,s a hydrofoil right or just 4 jets driven ?

J

[Gazmn]

Gazmn
I bought Raymarine ES98 MFD with Quantum Chirp Sonar & Quantum Radar Radome with both ethernet cable + wifi
http://www.raymarine.com/content/?id=13531

ES98 MFD is a 9" Screen
http://www.raymarine.com/view/?id=12164

Chirp downvision sonar
http://www.raymarine.com/uploadedImages ... PT-DVS.jpg

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... alUsxXUKsQ

These new broadband HD Colour Radars r really amazing Raymarine has a simular video link on u-tube & chirp is supposed to be even better I also got Navionics + US/Canada Maps thrown into the package deal

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... x6GSIewUkA

http://www.yachtingworld.com/yachts-and ... logy-71168

Anyway u still have to b virgulent even with Radar as it is only as good as its operator as Gasmn said he uses his all the time even in daylight so as to keep on top of it " the better u get at reading radar at a glimpse"
remember if ur r running at high speed in the dark & u see another boat on ur radar coming @ u at high speed , u don,t know if he has radar or if he does is he using it or even paying attention ! could b a dumb ass & relying on his auto pilot !! or even worse just stupid drunk or one of these don,t worry I know what I,m doing kinda guy,s ! & I,ve had near misses doing 10-12knotts in the dark with a big search light on coming up on boats with no Nav lights on doing illegal business I presume , I would not recommend doing more that Hull speed 6 knots in the dark even with a search light unless it was a full moon lit up night
Jeez I must B gettin old or wiser or something

J

Oh Santa -- The Easter Bunny were Good to you, eh John

Congratulations. Raymarine makes a great product!