Any news on the Tattoo 22?

[BOAT]

Pretty much the same thing for the M model. Lowest interest level ever.

Yup, looks like a BAD time to be a boat manufacturer.

[sailboatmike]

The X has been out of production for well over 10 years and the M for a few, is it any wonder people arent googling them as much now they become older stock.

Also could the lack of Google searches be directly related to the number that are on the market.

I do love a good statistic, such as these, one can interpret the data in so many ways depending on your point of view

[Starscream]

Yeah, statistics are the lowest form of math.

Here's one that supports Boat's rant..I mean theory:



"Jetski for sale" hit an all time high last summer, and could be on pace for a record this year, while "sailboat for sale" is in steady decline.

[BOAT]

"rant" was the correct term - that was accurate.

I'm not smart enough to have theories.

[sailboatmike]

Ok i have done some none conclusive research, the hard part is we dont actually know what terms people type into google to find boats, the list is long and imaginative

However, there has been a large spike in the search term "sailing" over the period of the last 2 Olympics, the 2016 spike was much lower than the 2012 spike apart from that there has been a slight decline, but it has not dropped through the floor

One has to wonder if the decline is directly related to the amount of television coverage given to the sport over the Olympic events. I know here is Australia unless you subscribed to the premium service the coverage of sailing was just about none existent, we got bits of the final races but that was about it and Im sure that was only because there was Australians with medal chances.

Searches on "Macgregor" are marginally down but it is marginal.

The sport has itself to blame, it is still seen as elitist and far out of the reach of the common man, I mean how many people have told you over the years how you must be rich to own a yacht, when I tell them they can buy a nice little trailer boat for less than $5000 or a sailing dinghy for a couple of hundred dollars they are amazed as its the super yachts and carbon fiber race boats that cost millions that get all the press.

In reality compared with other sports it can be as cheap or as expensive as you choose, as we all know you can buy a $200 dinghy and have years of fun floating around on a lake or bay with your family, thats still sailing

[Tomfoolery]

The sport has itself to blame, it is still seen as elitist and far out of the reach of the common man, I mean how many people have told you over the years how you must be rich to own a yacht, when I tell them they can buy a nice little trailer boat for less than $5000 or a sailing dinghy for a couple of hundred dollars they are amazed as its the super yachts and carbon fiber race boats that cost millions that get all the press.

In reality compared with other sports it can be as cheap or as expensive as you choose, as we all know you can buy a $200 dinghy and have years of fun floating around on a lake or bay with your family, thats still sailing

Ain't that the truth.



And since the X and M boats are pocket cruisers, and since I already had this and needed an excuse to post it, here's some more truth.

[K9Kampers]

... how many people have told you over the years how you must be rich to own a yacht... / ...In reality compared with other sports it can be as cheap or as expensive as you choose...

Up until a few years ago, I used to work at a medical products manufacturer. Just an everyman job, close to 400 workers / 3 shifts. When I got my Mac, I eventually learned of the handful of my coworkers who owned 'yachts' - trailerable boats bigger than the fishing/beer boats that haul around in the beds of fancy $40K 4x4 trucks.

It's stupid how boat owners can be considered rich by a group that spends / trades up every other year on motorcycles, snowmobiles, etc. than what I bought my Mac for.

[Bilgemaster]

I guess an honest assessment of us here on the site might also reveal why some of us are perplexed by the data - am I right to assume that almost all of us are over 49 years old? Might that be what's wrong with our perceptions?

Sure, I can sort of remember 49...hearing that huge Housing Bubble finally pop, a huge financial catastrophe whereby we were all soon supposed to be fighting with wild dogs in the streets for food, and as a result of some fancy (OK: "lucky") financial footwork on my part, finally being able to afford to buy a nice house for our little family that wasn't on wheels somewhere three hours from the city up in Appalachia, which is all I probably could have managed when I was 47 or 48, before that Bubble blew.

As for "Google Trends" data, I'm not yet so decrepit that I cannot understand it. I just don't think the search terms we've discussed necessarily tell the whole story. Try something like "best sailboat", drag out the graph as far as she'll go (from 2004), and you'll see the predictable seasonal variance and even a noticeable rise over time. So, it's not like there are no signs of the sort of typical search one might do were one beginning to play with the idea of getting a sailboat.

The salient facts seem to be this: fewer younger people are sailing--or aspire to sailing for now--than their forebears for a whole host of reasons. Sure, some of it's a generational change in recreational tastes. But even more than that I also believe crushing student debt is a major factor..like $1.28 trillions worth. After all, who of us "oldsters" who attended college graduated with a year or two's worth of our starting salary or even more in debt hanging around our necks like a huge millstone right at the career starting gate? Those 20- and even 30-somethings have a tougher and zig-zaggier row to hoe than we Boomers or even "Late-50s Bloomers" like me did in many ways. Hull, we got herds of 20-somethings at my Museum on their 3rd or 4th unpaid internship, just trying to cobble together some kind of feasible resume. But with a bit of luck and fortitude they'll get there. Once they shed that debt, stop sucking financial wind and get on a steadier course in life with their main priorities squared away, some will come around to some form of boating. Which brings me back to my overall point:

Some folks like motor boats,
Some favor sail.
Clever young rascals,
Will have both without fail.

Demographics, culture, and economics all point to a boost in value for our hybrid power-sailers. It may not be the ten- or fifteen-fold bump that Amphicars saw. There were additional factors in play there, such as a more limited quantity (only about 3,800 were built) and the rise of the Internet itself turning what had been a clubby local or specialty market into an international one. But still, enough similarities between these two unique breeds exist that I, for one, expect my 26X will command far more than what I paid for her after they drag me off to the "Home" to eat mush and talk to Elvis.

[BOAT]

I have mentioned that as long as no one is making a TRAILER sailboat that is also a powerboat I will sell my boat for more than I paid for it. The Amphicar illustration is a great example. I love the Amphicar and I would like to have one - but even more I would like to have a new MODERN Amphicar at a reasonable price but because of the market it will never happen - no one will make one in my price range because the profit margin does not justify the startup costs to go into production. It would be better to make the amphicars hand built custom one at a time and charge more. When Kevin said I could take solace in the fact that my boat would go up in value he was answering my post where I said I had sorrow for seeing Roger leave the boating industry so Kevin’s response was appropriate. I’m not really sorry to see the X or M boat end manufacturing, I’m more sorry that Roger is no longer going to be innovating things. I was sort of hoping for a Y boat to follow X and M. I was hoping for PRODUCTION of a reasonably priced boat for the masses to continue. I don’t see that coming now nor do I expect any TRAILER boat innovators to emerge BECAUSE, (and here is the point) > “There is no significant market anymore to justify the startup”. (End quote) ‘Significant’ is the word used to describe the largest part of a market – and right now that part is the large luxury craft (Benneteau)– NOT TRAILERS. That’s the salient fact. That's why a search for BEST SAILBOAT is up over CHEAPEST SAILBOAT. We lost mastreb here on this site to a Benneteau because he can afford much more and when people CAN afford more they get more. THAT part of the market (people who can afford MORE) is growing - there are more affluent people now then there were 20 years ago, and that is why Roger kept the big expensive boat part of his company and dumped the cheap production boat part: there are more rich people now, but there are LESS middle income folks like me. We are dying off.

[K9Kampers]

BOAT - DIY has always been popular, you can make your own custom powersailing amphicar... ROLL 'EM

[BOAT]

BOAT - DIY has always been popular, you can make your own custom powersailing amphicar... ROLL 'EM

Hey mate - baha taught me that's a slipway - not a launch ramp! (so there!)

[K9Kampers]

It's called that whilst he has no brakes! Upon approaching the launch ramp, 'is car slip way into the water!

[miamistyle]

I disagree with Boat.

Sage marine is making small sailboats.
West wight potter is making small sailboats.
Com pac is making small, slightly more expensive sailboats.

None of those can motor quickly. Which is why I have not purchased one of those others.

Sometimes you just have to build it and they will come, like in field of dreams.

[sailboatmike]

Maybe boat manufacturers need to take note of car companies tactics for driving profit margin, and as we all know its all about making a dollar.

Roger followed Henry Fords lead of mass production, basically each boat was identical, like the model T Ford, this is great for keeping costs down, I believe the Model T was available in three colours, Black, Black and Black,

But car companies know the real money is in the optional extras which are much easier to sell at the point of order than later on when the client has the product.

Simple things like upgraded sails, maybe some wood trim, upgraded trailer upgraded cushions etc. make up the DELUXE version with a nice big DELUXE sticker defining it as the desirable option over the standard GL version ,

While I salute Roger for his manufacturing innovation for boats, leaving owners to do their own upgrades is like pouring money they would of payed you down the drain.

We all know storage is poor in our boats, yet where is the optional factory cupboards and tank locker covers?

[Tomfoolery]

My impression was that the Mac power sailors basically were like domestic (US domestic, that is) cars in that almost everything was optional, starting with the fore sail. AFAIK, they didn't even come with a jib, unless you picked that option.