Learning to sail better

[Highlander]

Now I have shot a video of "Beene,s boat washing the port side window,s from the cabin entrance & from inside the cabin , I do believe we were flyin full main & spinnaker
G might have copie,s of them on his U-Tube channel

J

[BOAT]

Now I have shot a video of "Beene,s boat washing the port side window,s from the cabin entrance & from inside the cabin , I do believe we were flyin full main & spinnaker
G might have copie,s of them on his U-Tube channel

J

Ive seen it - he was on a kite - flying a kite is the best way to pull a boat over on it's side. I sail over 45 degrees all the time and my windows never get wet - the freeboard on my boat is just too high and being almost 100% stock I am too light to bury the boat - it's like a child's punching bag toy - it just keeps popping back up - I'm too light to get that far into the water even on my side.





I need to be over 65 degrees just to get to the windows - at 90 degrees (pictured) the windows are submarine ports for viewing the fishys and other wildlife:



Now, if you guys are sailing your MAC's at 90 degrees I will say that your really heeling over pretty far (too far) and indeed the windows will get a good cleaning job.

[DaveC426913]

I must assume your joking because it takes more than 55 degrees to even get close to the windows on the M boat.

Wave action with splash. Not actually submerging.

But 30 degrees is routine, with the occasional dip to 40.

[DaveC426913]

I am too light to bury the boat - it's like a child's punching bag toy - it just keeps popping back up

Or kinda like a SeaSaw... *er ee er ee*

[MikeFloutier]

We spent a long day on the water yesterday in around 12kts gusting 17kts.

As we spent fairly long periods of a particular tack, and the autopilot was on, I was able to spend more time on sail trimming - my obvious interests being Higher and Faster.

Off the wind wasn't too much of an issue BUT close-reaching and higher were disappointing.

On the way out we were off the wind and I was concentrating on the 150% Genoa.

However, on the return we needed to be as close to the wind as possible and with the high-ish wind speed I dispensed with the Genoa altogether but kept the full main.

Now I was forced to concentrate on trimming the main I was horrified to see that it's shape looked like it would have troubles.

My trimming strategy was simply to get as many of the 4 leech tell-tales flying as possible.

What I saw was:

1. The top of the luff ballooning,
2. The middle (height) of the sail looked fairly good but with most shape towards the luff,
3. The bottom's luff end was pretty full but it's leech was dead-looking and flat.

The general impression was that the whole of the leech 1/3 of the sail was flat and lifeless.

I'm starting to wonder if I've made some mistakes with the new battens I fitted at the start of the season.

I'd lost almost all my old ones and, rather than getting Mac-battens from BWY, I bought some wide thick ones and cut them down to size. I had a struggle to force them into the pockets, due to their over-size (which I thought would be good) AND, in my keenness to avoid loosing them again, I made them so they fitted very tightly.

In retrospect I'm wondering if the battens are far too stiff and tight and so are not allowing their area of the sail to curve at all.

What do you think?

[Catigale]

Mike ..what sails are you flying....brand and age?

Trying to get good performance out if stock is putting a turbocharger on a Trabant

[MikeFloutier]

Thanks Catigale,

The boat was new in 2009 and has the stock main (1 reef) plus 150% genoa. As far as I can see the PO, who had it from new had the sails cleaned regularly by SKB, a local sail company of good repute. The genoa was recut and had a UV strip added in 2011 but there's no mention of any work on the main.

The genoa certainly seems to respond well to trimming and will happily drive the boat at over 5 kts without the main.

Because our trip was designed a picnic day out with my wife I didn't want to do much fiddling about with trimming.

I guess I could have eased the traveller in order to trim out the twist in the top of the main which would have helped.

However I'm still wondering if the super-stiff battens I added have done more harm than good to the leech end of the main as the power curve is pretty much limited to the luff end.

Does anyone happen to know the rough cross-sectional dimensions of the standard battens?

[K9Kampers]

Trying to get good performance out if stock is putting a turbocharger on a Trabant

Sailing, sailing, sailing,...SQUIRREL! -Just returned from a lunch break trip to Youtubeland to watch all the turbocharged Trabant videos!

[Tomfoolery]

Trying to get good performance out if stock is putting a turbocharger on a Trabant

Sailing, sailing, sailing,...SQUIRREL! -Just returned from a lunch break trip to Youtubeland to watch all the turbocharged Trabant videos!

That was my favorite ride when I was a kid. But they're all electric drive now - don't know how you'd put a turbocharger on one, unless it was simply strapped into a seat.



OK, I'm kidding. But every time I see that name, that's what I think of. East Germany probably didn't find the name of the ride very funny, though.

[Catigale]

That's big water for a Mac, mike. Our Falmouth is a lot tamer.

The gunny is big for big sea winds too.

Stock MAC sails were end run "Dacron" , that is, I don't think they factory was allowed to use the trademarked Dacron as a material brand.

I blew my main out pretty badly My first week.

[DaveC426913]

I blew my main out pretty badly My first week.

I hope you bandaged it and stayed off it till it could h̶e̶e̶l̶ * heal!

*Actual, bona fide mistype.

[Catigale]

You have to bandage it after it's been cut..you can tell it was sick by how the telltales flu.

[orwell10]

There's so much to read. I appreciate all the effort of sharing info and advice. - Orwell

[sailboatmike]

The problem has long been with the internet that its 90% BS and 10% good helpful, knowledgeable stuff.

Of course anyone with enough smarts to buy a Mac has to be in the 10% , the Mac knockers are of course part of the 90% that dont know their ass from their elbow

[Baha]

I assume your already starting with way too much sail horsepower on the rear of the boat - you need to get more sail power moved forward and get that boat balanced.

I have been doubting whether simply moving the ail forward should make a difference. While sail area may be moved forward, the sheet/cleat has not, and is therefore pulling from just as far astern in both cases.

So I had to draw up a diagram to understand it.

It seems that moving the sail forward shortens the distance through which the pulling force of the sheet/block/cleat can act. In the diagram, A' is shorter A. Like using a long-handled wrench versus a short-handled wrench, the long-handled provides more torque. I want less torque. So I want the short-handled wrench.

Wow, okay, for the third time guys,

Remember? I said:

"The fact that your main is a 4:1 block should be a hint to you as to how much horsepower is really coming from that main sheet . . . . . . . The Genoa sheets are pulling directly on the back of the boat too . . . . . . . I suspect it would help the X boat to move more of that mainsheet “pull” towards the mast by transferring it with a boom Vang . . . . "

I did not say to move the SAILS forward, I said move the sail POWER forward.

Maybe if I say it differently: The POWER of the sails is transferred to the boat by the stays, the mast, and the sheets. To move power you need to move THOSE THINGS, NOT THE SAILS.

It's pretty hard to move the stays or the mast, so all that leaves you with are the SHEETS.

Again, Moving the sheets forward is a possible remedy, or another possibility is a bowsprit - sometimes a bowsprit can help move headsail power out in front of the boat.

If your using a smaller sail in the same cleats your not moving the sail power at all.

All your doing in that case is reducing the overall sail power. Also, in the diagram the first boat has more force pulling the stern than the second boat. The second boat has more force pulling forward than the first boat, there for the second boat in the picture would round up later than the first boat - I think that sort of contradicts your conclusion.

Something is pushing the back of the boat away from the wind - it's either THE WIND, or it's the shape of the hull.

Making sure I understand, because I fight weather helm all the time. If the wind is up, I (of course) reef the main. If I want to move the sheet forward, I set the traveller all the way to leeward. For my jib, I want to set the cars forward as far as is practical.

Is this correct?