V berth floatation chamber

[Nauti Nell]

If someone has the interior dimensions of the v berth flotation area that they would be able to share I would be extremely grateful. I took it apart and measured it the other day when at the lake. When asking the Admiral this morning where the measurements are that she wrote down for me..... well let's just say they are no longer available...something about laundry, pants pockets..... I did not pursue. Boat is a two hour round trip and thought I would try this. Thanks much in advance.

[BOAT]

Oh man, I just have not had the energy to tackle this project yet, but I am going to open up the forward flotation compartment on 'boat' and remove all the flotation and get an exact dimensional drawing made for that space. I really don't know how long it's going to take me to do that and since I am in the sailing season right now I was probably going to tackle it this winter.

My plan is to send my specs to US PLASTICS (I have had them build a LOT of custom tanks for me in the past for my motor homes) and have a custom tank built to go in that compartment.

The idea is that the empty tank will replace the same flotation as the Styrofoam when the tank is empty, but I plan on putting fresh water into the tank and an on demand water pump system like I have on my motorhome. With a good pump like I have on the Van I can clear a 30 gallon tank of water in less than 3 minutes if I use a 3/4 inch line. That means I can carry 30 gallons of water (nose heavy) and if I become swamped or get holed I can dump the fresh water and still retain flotation.

As soon as I get a drawing I will try to post it but it's gonna take a while - sorry.

[npsrangerchuck]

My plan is to send my specs to US PLASTICS (I have had them build a LOT of custom tanks for me in the past for my motor homes) and have a custom tank built to go in that compartment.

.As soon as I get a drawing I will try to post it but it's gonna take a while - sorry.

That sounds like something we will all anxiously await!

[NiceAft]

I have been questioning whether I should chime in.

When I purchased my in 2005, I had a 30 gallon bladder installed in the area below the V-berth. I also had an electric pump installed for power to a sink faucet, and a shower head in motor well.

The point of all this is that I have not used the system in a couple of years. The clear supply hose to the faucet is visibly full of mold. I don't even want to think of what's in the bladder.

The reason I am bringing this up is this; you have to be aware of this possibility. The concept is good. The convenience is obvious, but you have to be on top of potential mold.

I thought of pouring some bleach into the system, but the bladder is opaque, so how does one know the effectiveness? I am going to replace the bladder and the flow hose. Next season I anticipate using the system for the first time in awhile.

If you install such a system, enjoy, and beware. Moisture and warmth breeds life

Ray

[BOAT]

I have been questioning whether I should chime in.

When I purchased my in 2005, I had a 30 gallon bladder installed in the area below the V-berth. I also had an electric pump installed for power to a sink faucet, and a shower head in motor well.

The point of all this is that I have not used the system in a couple of years. The clear supply hose to the faucet is visibly full of mold. I don't even want to think of what's in the bladder.

The reason I am bringing this up is this; you have to be aware of this possibility. The concept is good. The convenience is obvious, but you have to be on top of potential mold.

I thought of pouring some bleach into the system, but the bladder is opaque, so how does one know the effectiveness? I am going to replace the bladder and the flow hose. Next season I anticipate using the system for the first time in awhile.

If you install such a system, enjoy, and beware. Moisture and warmth breeds life

Ray

Your problem is caused by using a bladder.

I have been in RV and Motorhomes for over 50 years - from the pressure tank metal water tanks of the 50 and 60's to the modern polypropylene tanks and demand water systems of today. I never have mold in my systems because they are properly installed. The proper way to do a water system is with a Tamco or Polypropylene tank that is properly vented. PVC tanks are okay for septic but never for water - most bladders are PVC and not vented - that's the 2 main causes of mold.

I have a lot of hands on experience in this area - there will be no mold problems. I would never use a bladder tank for fresh water on my boat.

[NiceAft]

I appreciate your experience.

Ray

[BOAT]

The other thing is the clear supply hose.
Clear hoses are not good for fresh water because light = photosynthesis. Also, clear line is too soft and allows bacteria a place to hang on.
If any organic material gets into your water like dirt from the ground it will settle in the pipes, that's normal, but in a clear pipe the organic material will turn to moss if it has exposure to light.
The best way to do plumbing in RV and boat is with the hard PEX plastic pipe (HDPE) - red color for hot and blue color for cold - they have it at home depot:

http://www.homedepot.com/b/Plumbing-Pip ... 5yc1vZbuty

Use hard copper compression rings to make the connection and use brass barbs - now you have a real marine environment rated plumbing system. The only thing better would be to pipe your boat with hard copper pipe, and that's not practical on a MAC.

When I do the tank in the bow I will be using a hard tank with 1 inch threaded vent lines on the top. That's pretty normal for RV use.
Hard tanks can also be flushed and cleaned with bleach - that does not work very well on bladders.

I have already done my stint with PVC and soft tanks and various types of tubing many years ago and learned a lot the hard way when I was a 17 year old kid building my first camper van. The old guys helped me back then and got me going in the right direction on RV plumbing. Hard copper pipe is by far the very best - and in RV gas/propane systems it's the ONLY thing you should use, but only the very most expensive luxury motor homes have hard copper plumbing on the water system too - most use the PEX because it can't absorb anything - the cross linked ethylene bond changes the material from a thermoplastic to a thermoset. In my industry we cross link polymer bonds to create wire insulation too, like XHHW so you have a product that can not absorb anything like a soft thermoplastic can and it makes a wire that can be buried directly in the ground or run in a duct bank that might get submerged. The moisture can't get into the bonds, even a smaller fluid molecule like amonia (the source of mold) or hydrogen can't break the bonds. When you touch a cross linked thermoset plastic with your fingers it feels waxy - some people think the material has wax on it and they try to clean it off, but look at your fingers - there is no wax residue on your fingers - that waxy feeling is the moisture in your fingers unable to penetrate the surface of the plastic - it's a strange feeling to your skin.


It's good stuff.
(Better living though science).

[NiceAft]

The galley on an slides on a track. I am not familiar with the .

Ray

[BOAT]

The galley on an slides on a track. I am not familiar with the .

Ray

The X galley does not slide.

The water lines for the system I am going to make will use PEX pipe down in the bilge and a surflow demand pump in the bow Outside of the foam compartment (i want to be able to turn a valve to route the pump line from the sinks and shower and cockpit to a drain port and I want access to the pump motor.)

All the pipe except for the big drain line will be PEX. Hopefully one line along the port side from bow to stern should do it, unless i get really crazy and try to add hot water (NOT likely ).

The sliding galley; of course, will use the standard high pressure stainless steel flex hoses - 36 inch is probably what I will use with a manifold down inside the compartment under the furthest rear seat.



The drain pipe on the galley is fine the way it is for now until I add a sump. I'm still contemplating the need for a sump and grey water tank under the rear berth.

[Tomfoolery]

The drain pipe on the galley is fine the way it is for now until I add a sump. I'm still contemplating the need for a sump and grey water tank under the rear berth.

Why add a gray water tank when you can dump it through the hull in real time?

[Nauti Nell]

Original owner had installed a sump pump under the sink with a p trap. Can't figure out why as there are no sewer gases to stop. I was going to remove it as I thought gravity would remove water from sink just fine. (I figured it was installed due to some sort of California environmental law....original owner lived in California.)
Thanks much for the insight into tanks and piping the water system.

[BOAT]

The drain pipe on the galley is fine the way it is for now until I add a sump. I'm still contemplating the need for a sump and grey water tank under the rear berth.

Why add a gray water tank when you can dump it through the hull in real time?

Original owner had installed a sump pump under the sink with a p trap. Can't figure out why as there are no sewer gases to stop. I was going to remove it as I thought gravity would remove water from sink just fine. (I figured it was installed due to some sort of California environmental law....original owner lived in California.)
Thanks much for the insight into tanks and piping the water system.

BINGO! Prize for Nauti Nell!

In California the EPA Nazi's are everywhere and even in my home port they will try to board you:


Avalon and Catalina Island even require that sinks be stopped up sometimes. A single violation can have you banned from the Island for years:


Even the home of the MacGregor 26M is not safe for boats with a discharge - Balboa (where Roger lives) is another restricted zone:


I don't know how long it will take for this type of thing to sweep across the rest of the US but be prepared, your local California Communist Party Chapter is coming to your area soon!

[Tomfoolery]

The drain pipe on the galley is fine the way it is for now until I add a sump. I'm still contemplating the need for a sump and grey water tank under the rear berth.

Why add a gray water tank when you can dump it through the hull in real time?

Original owner had installed a sump pump under the sink with a p trap. Can't figure out why as there are no sewer gases to stop. I was going to remove it as I thought gravity would remove water from sink just fine. (I figured it was installed due to some sort of California environmental law....original owner lived in California.)
Thanks much for the insight into tanks and piping the water system.

BINGO! Prize for Nauti Nell!

In California the EPA Nazi's are everywhere and even in my home port they will try to board you:


Avalon and Catalina Island even require that sinks be stopped up sometimes. A single violation can have you banned from the Island for years:


Even the home of the MacGregor 26M is not safe for boats with a discharge - Balboa (where Roger lives) is another restricted zone:


I don't know how long it will take for this type of thing to sweep across the rest of the US but be prepared, your local California Communist Party Chapter is coming to your area soon!

Hmmmm. In Ontario Province on Lake Ontario, you can't have a PortaPotti. Has to be a MSD, which means a holding tank. My Thetford is the MSD version of a PortaPotti, which I installed to replace the standard (non-MSD) PP, including a pump out port on the deck plus a small vent. Never pumped it out, but technically it's an MSD. And if that doesn't satisfy them, I'll plead ignorant 'Merican trying to do the right thing while visiting Canada.

But gray water tanks aren't required AFAIK. Yet.

[BOAT]

Yeah, the MSD porta-potty is just an extra nozzle that goes on the tank so that it can be pumped out at a pump station.

The real purpose is to FORCE you to GO to a pump station to empty your porta-potty, but eventually the final purpose is to ban porta-potties altogether, sort of like Sacramento did with guns, but in the water Sacramento is not in charge, the CCC is and it's party members are in charge of the water. If you are a party member and you are reading this all I can say is "Hello Comrade from one compliant Citizen to another!" (That should keep anyone from my door tonight).

That will be the next step, the California CCC has already sent a draft from the CCC Politburo to be distributed to Central Propaganda to start a full on "Educational" program to 'inform' the population of the evils of porta-potties.
It's really weird that executives from both the luxury Yacht industry AND the Hotel Industry sit on the CCC, (or maybe NOT so weird?)

Anyways,
After the edicts are adopted by the Politburo they go; of course, to the CCC Central Committee for enforcement. Since the CCC is a non-elected body (like the Supreme Court) they can do whatever they want. The Central Commission for Discipline Inspection then informs the Central Committee about the effectiveness of enforcement, voluntary compliance, and so forth so the CCC can evaluate if further actions are needed. The Motto of the CCC is: "A Compliant Population is Our Goal!"

So, there is a pretty good chance I WILL be installing a sump and two waste tanks in the boat: The grey water tank will go under the aft berth and the septic will of course need to go under the area where the porta potty now sits. How long I will be able to get away with having the potty is still unknown - so that's a project I really want to put way way way on the back burner.

"A Compliant Population is Our Goal!"
Welcome to America, Comrades.

It's just a matter of time before they are in your backyard too.

[Russ]

BOAT

Thanks for all that great information. PEX seems the way to go. Copper has a natural antibacterial/fungeral properties so I can see why that would be the gold standard.

We've been adding a teaspoon of bleach to each of our 5 gal fresh water tanks. Seems to keep the growth at bay.

Sorry for the crazy regs in CA. THAT is good reason to stay away.