Love My Heavy Sails

[dthiesmeyer]

Last year I got a Hyde Cruising Genoa 150 - Challenge Hi Modulus 6.03 Dacron from Judy B. This year I got a Hyde Performance Main - 6.11 Challenge Warp-Drive Dacron from Judy B. My wind conditions are moderate on Lake Erie and usually run about 7-15MPH. These sails give me great performance in these conditions. I would estimate that I get at least 2MPH better performance over my old stock sails and the draft from the heavier material is perfect.

Judy B.

Have I thanked you lately for my perfect sails?

Thank you,

Dave

[Judy B]

Last year I got a Hyde Cruising Genoa 150 - Challenge Hi Modulus 6.03 Dacron from Judy B. This year I got a Hyde Performance Main - 6.11 Challenge Warp-Drive Dacron from Judy B. My wind conditions are moderate on Lake Erie and usually run about 7-15MPH. These sails give me great performance in these conditions. I would estimate that I get at least 2MPH better performance over my old stock sails and the draft from the heavier material is perfect.

Judy B.

Have I thanked you lately for my perfect sails?

Thank you,

Dave

You are VERY welcome, Dave

For those of you who don't know what he bought: He chose a tri-radial sail, which is going to perform better than a "regular" mainsail -- it will trim better, point higher, heel less, and therefore go faster. It's made of a super-low stretch dacron, as good as a cruising laminate, and will hold a like new shape for several years. Even after a couple of years of use, his mainsail will out-perform a brand new cross-cut sail of "average" dacron

But... I wouldn't call 6 oz "heavy" for a 26' boat that sails in 15+ winds. That's what it should be for sailing in winds over 15.

IMO, the OEM 4 oz cloth is waaaaay too light duty for the 26X and 26M. The 4 oz dacron of which they are made can't maintain a good shape in winds over 15 mph.

Judy B

[KootsChewt]

@Judy B, I'm looking for a jib sail, and am leaning towards a tri-radial Warp-Drive. In your reply, you note that the Warp-Drive will have a better shape and maintain it longer then any crosscut Dacron sail, but flipping through http://www.hydesailsdirect.com/Macgrego ... /38928.htm, the Warp-Drive looks to be no different than good quality Dacron cross cuts, and the laminates all look better, judging by the bar graphs for each cloth type for 'shape life'. Help?

[1st Sail]

The Hyde main you purchased is the 311-R?

http://www.hydesailsdirect.com/Macgrego ... /11723.htm

[dthiesmeyer]

I got the 230X and have been very happy with it. If I had the extra $400 at the time I may have gotten the radial cut. Looks very good...

Dave

[1st Sail]

I'm still debating between the Hyde or BWY mains. Previous posts from Mac sailors are very positive for both. One commented it was like dropping a V8 in a VW. Seems like the flat head generates more power overall but must be reefed sooner. Since I sail on the upper Miss. river current is always a factor. Fortunately I have two pools to chose from one runs E-W and the other N-S. So I can pick my day to sail on a reach. For me most speed on a reach is the decision maker. There is not a lot of room to tack due to channel and wing dams. Either sail will improve pointing. Both companies have always enjoyed great reviews on this site. I just lack the sail knowledge to make a definitive choice or it that really matters after all it is a 6 knot+/- hull.

[sailboatmike]

Both the Hyde and the BWY sails are great, just depends what you want / need. In reality either is going to give you a huge improvement over the stock flimsy things that came with the boat.

I always say if you have the extra dollars sitting around burning a hole in your pocket get the best you can get (Hyde sails), however if you are more budget minded but want something that will do the job well then buy the BWY sail.

I would of loved Judy B sails but the importing laws here would of made them prohibitive in cost, for me it would of been the extra cost of purchase plus I would of had to pay an additional 10% GST when they arrived (imports under $1000 Au didn't attract the 10% GST). If you can pick the sails up from BWY in Seattle you have further savings because the price listed on their web store are inclusive of postage.

I spent just on $3000Au on my new sails from BWY, and got them sent in 3 parcels so the saving just on GST was $300, yes there was slightly more postage, but for me the overall saving on a Jib, Main and Spinnaker was around $1000Au. Not a amount to be sneezed at

[1st Sail]

Sailboatmike,

Did you opt for the BWY Flat head main?

[sailboatmike]

Sailboatmike,

Did you opt for the BWY Flat head main?

No I have a X so it would take some modification to use a square top main because of the backstay, it could be done but would need a nice long crane

[whgoffrn]

@ Judy b ... just curious what sails are best for heavy weather sailing ... not that I purposely go out in bad weather but it seems I am a squall magnet and they love to follow me .... I'm prepping for a long cruise to exumas next year and my old blown out sails heel thw boat over and it rounds up a lot even reefed down given the usual tropical squalls and say a 60mph gust range what sails do you suggest

I have stock sails with a higher reef in them now just wondering what you have and if the heavier dacron would help a bit

[Sumner]

.... boat over and it rounds up a lot even reefed down given the usual tropical squalls and say a 60mph gust range what sails do you suggest ...

If you think a squall is going to hit you get the sails down. I was just on the edge of one with the sails up and luckily I had the preventers on the main, but was still real exciting for a moment. In the future I'll have them down as soon as I'm close. We have friends that have a Westsail 32 which is a 20,000 lb. go around the world boat. They got in a squal with the sails up and it knocked the boat down on its side for a moment before it righted.

I sent our genoa for the Endeavour in to have sunbrella sewed on it and Martin at Somerset Sails recommended exchanging it as it was a heavy off-shore sail and he felt a lighter one would be better for us, even going to the Bahamas. We swapped and the sail he sent us has been a great sail so far. The previous owner was planning trips way past the Bahamas before his health went.

So, a sail heavier than stock is probably a good deal but you don't want to put sails on the boat that can handle squalls in my opinion. We have been very happy with the sails, a radial cut genoa and a loose footed main ...



http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner ... ng-23.html

... we bought a few years back. Have worked great for all conditions we have been in,

Sumner

============================
1300 miles to the Bahamas and back -- 2015

The MacGregor 26-S

The Endeavour 37

Trips to Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[whgoffrn]

That's prob the best way but I always like to have a back up .... I don't want to get in a position where i have an engine failure during a squall.... I've been in a few good squalls and sailed through them but not quite as uneventful as the macgregor video showing sailing in 50mph winds .... I've sailed in what I believe to be upwards of 40 or 50 mph gusts but was a lot of heeling and rounding up..... if like to be able to still use the sails to navigate or hold a bearing.... usually I reef way down and put 1/2 the jib out which I'll roll down to 1/ 4 or just a patch and try to point as close to the wind as i can in an attempt to slow the boat down .... I hadn't put a 3rd reef in as of the time my last attempt at sailing in a squall and even with a patch of jib out it rounded up several times and heeled excessively .... so not sure how much a heavier dacron full battons and higher reef point in the main would work...... I've not been in a squall bad enough I had to run with the wind as of yet ... if that bad i believe I'd throw the sea anchor (or Mantus if shallow enough ) because I won't try to rip the main down pressed against the spreaders ....so basically just looking for a little more control up to semi reasonable squall speed winds

[Highlander]

I,D think u would b better off with a small storm jib mounted with a forestay coming down from the spreaders to the front of the V Berth hatch & a third reef in ur main, squall,s r usually short but in some cases can last a while & require a lot of effort on ur part I was caught in a bad one on L Simcoe ON with pouring blinding rain which turned into freezing hail the size of 3/8" ball bearing,s on my it lasted for over an hr & by the time I got my sails down & motored to my destination heading into the wind by that time I was soaking wet freezing cold & had lost about 2/3rds of my body strength & mobility due to on coming hypothermia took me about 3 days to finally feeling better & that was in mid Aug I believe so do not always assume a squall is gonna b a warm one even if it is a wet summer one ! & it was not forewarned it just came outa the blue there was no weather warning on VHF until after it hit !
Also remember when heavier sails get wet u r gonna have more weight aloft not a good thing

Just Sayin That,s All

J
PS I,m getting older now & hopefully more wiser ! with experience

[BOAT]

You guys sailing in that Northern stuff are brave.

Heavy sails last longer - that's the main thing about it. I do not treat the main the same as headsails. On previous boats I would go all crazy on different headsails and experiment and furl and hank and really - on the front of your boat is a great place to really play with sails - but on the main I do not play those games. i see the main as a sort of a standard workhorse and I keep that one simple.

That main is your primary tool - so it needs to be sized to your conditions (region) - up north I think heavy might be good, but for the normal pacific breezes? No, I do not. Now I admit I do have two mains: One a light slug mount sail and the other a bolt rope mounted sail that is heavier.

People get frustrated about this issue a lot.
A light sail works BETTER than a heavy sail when it's new unless your in heavy wind - a new sail is stiff and crinkly and sails flat and works great in many conditions (duh! it's NEW!) New sail works great be they light or heavy. The problem with light sails is that they wear out faster not that they perform less - in fact in the right conditions they perform BETTER. Now, we are only talking about MAINS here - not headsails. Headsails are a totally different subject.

People MOSTLY get heavy sails because they last longer - that would be the main reason if your not in a heavy wind region. If your sailing is not in hard conditions then heavy sails are really not the greatest idea if your looking for performance. i have been around the horn many times on this issue and argued it over and over again with of all people: MYSELF. Way back in olden days I got heavy main sails and thought: "wow! this is great - they are flat and no heel!" but I was comparing a new heavy main sail with an OLD light main sail. Then I got the chance to compare a NEW HEAVY MAIN SAIL with a NEW LIGHT MAIN SAIL - huge difference. Hands down the NEW LIGHT main sail was more responsive - faster - and easier to handle, UNTIL . . . the wind got very heavy. When the wind is blowing a STEADY hard 28 knots you will get better performance from the Heavy sail. (ie: less reefing).

So, what do I do?

I buy new light main sails and I BUY THEM OFTEN. I do not spend a lot of money on fancy main sails because I know I am going to wear them out quickly and replace them - I run the stock Doyle main and I get them from a Doyle loft in Costa Mesa. I save my sail buck and put the extra money into the HEAD SAILS. That's where you can play around and have more fun.

[whgoffrn]

Hmmm never thought of it that way ..... ok prob a strange question but what is anyone's opinion of adding a 4th reef to the main this is strictly for squall sailing.... I've just recently had a 3rd reef put in the stock main sail and have yet to see how much that helped but already wondering if I should have just went ahead and had 2 higher points .... most say they just drop the sails all together and use motor only.... I want to use my motor as the very last case scenario as i hate having all my eggs in one basket ..... I really would just like to be able to maneuver around in a squall without heeling at 45+ degrees a d rounding up ....so just enough sail to move 2kts or so

My motor is reliable I believe but i hate having only 1 option and I have a sea anchor for if it gets REALLY bad but id really like to find a way to use the sails in quite strong winds if just to barely maneuver and keep the bow as close into the wind as possible ....... since our boats can't heave to I'm starting to wonder if just the smallest bit of main and jib out would just about accomplish the same thing