26M Better than 26X?

[Bill at BOATS 4 SAIL]

My wife said that she liked the 26X better than the 26M, so we have the 26X. Therefore the 26X must be better.

[kmclemore]

My wife said that she liked the 26X better than the 26M, so we have the 26X. Therefore the 26X must be better.

Yeah, I'd stick to that story, Bill. Much safer.

[dlandersson]

My wife said that she liked the 26X better than the 26M, so we have the 26X. Therefore the 26X must be better.

[BOAT]

Having said all this they are both good boats but not ocean cruisers (sorry Boat) they are coastal cruisers and as such they both handle well under sail and motor.

Cheers Den.

No need to apologise to me - I am not real experienced with the X boat - I have only been on three of them and only sailed two. I just listened to someone who had both boats.

I also leaned towards the X boat and had the choice of either but after talking to Mike Inmon about my sailing grounds he really thought the stronger build of the M boat with the deeper hull, stronger rig traveller and extra ballast would better serve my needs as I sail 50 to 100 miles out around the islands off California. He just advised me to do a lot more reefing than I was accustomed to doing - advice I did not take in the beginning but I am finally starting to use. Switching from lead to water ballast makes me trim a little different than I used to in the old days, but aside from that everything is still pretty much the same as any trailer boat I have sailed so I do not notice the disadvantages you mention. Maybe by your suggestion I will build a new helm seat - you think I should make a flat one?

[kurz]

Having said all this they are both good boats but not ocean cruisers (sorry Boat) they are coastal cruisers and as such they both handle well under sail and motor.

Cheers Den.

extra ballast would better serve my needs as I sail 50 to 100 miles out around the islands off California.

I don't think that the extra pormanent ballast of the will help you in the ocean... BECOUSE: As it was written obeve, both M and X have the same amount of ballast. The M has a fixed one, so the water ballast ist somewhat smaller. So concerning ballast they should be the same - as long if the ballast tank is ful...

[BOAT]

Ballast was the wrong word to use - the M boat is heavier. It's 200 pounds heavier than the X mostly because of an added layer of fiberglass mat and roving to the underwater area of the hull. Because it's underwater I consider that 'ballast' but technically, that would not be correct but it has the same effect. The more weight you can get under the waterline the better.

[Herschel]

Ballast was the wrong word to use - the M boat is heavier. It's 200 pounds heavier than the X mostly because of an added layer of fiberglass mat and roving to the underwater area of the hull. Because it's underwater I consider that 'ballast' but technically, that would not be correct but it has the same effect. The more weight you can get under the waterline the better.

I like your thinking, Boat. Since I have 18 gallons of freshwater tankage and up to 13 gallons of holding tank "liquid" below the water line on my starboard side, I have a potential of about 250 lbs. more ballast...on a starboard tack. Neat. Then there are the two batteries, tool box and gear on the port side. Sweet.

[BOAT]

Ballast was the wrong word to use - the M boat is heavier. It's 200 pounds heavier than the X mostly because of an added layer of fiberglass mat and roving to the underwater area of the hull. Because it's underwater I consider that 'ballast' but technically, that would not be correct but it has the same effect. The more weight you can get under the waterline the better.

I like your thinking, Boat. Since I have 18 gallons of freshwater tankage and up to 13 gallons of holding tank "liquid" below the water line on my starboard side, I have a potential of about 250 lbs. more ballast...on a starboard tack. Neat. Then there are the two batteries, tool box and gear on the port side. Sweet.

I try to get as much of the heavy stuff as I can below the waterline.
I have all my fresh water storage packed around the daggerboard well in the dinette. I keep the inflatable boat (very heavy) under the bow berth slightly to starboard and all the canned goods under the seat in the bathroom to the port side. I try to get everything I can that is heavy way down low.
It's the gas tanks that fry me - they are way up high in the cockpit and I have 17 gallons on each side (over 220 pounds total). After every 50 miles on the motor I have to switch tanks to keep the thing balanced.

[OverEasy]

Funny this thread fizzled......
We would have thought it was something that was of greater interest to both X & M owners....

We have been concerned about our weight distribution on Over Easy as a Mac26X.
From a bare boat configuration it seemed by layout that the head/dinette/benches were going to make the boat heavier on the starboard side vs the galley and battery on the port side.

Adding the second battery to the port side battery box seemed to balance things out but that really isn’t scientific or verified by a weight and balance calculation. It just seems to “feel” thataway.

Modification to the galley did add some dry weight vs the original but as we used PVC Board it actually only came in about 10-15lbs more than the original design. ( We cot away the full top and sink and a portion of the front structure and ditched the black fiberglass insert. All of which had a considerable weight.)

Now when it comes to loading for an extended trip we know we are going to have to watch our side-2-side distribution.

Yes, we agree the fuel tanks high moment above waterline does have an impact on stability as we now have dual 12 gallon tanks in the fuel cubbies. Not much we’re gonna do about that as we don’t want fuel stored in the cabin area for safety reasons.
What we are going to do though is have our inflatable dinghy in the aft berth centered on the stern wall. It is one of our heavier movable items we can use to help balance things out. (Once we finally get a motor for it that will be another consideration.

The Mac26X open layout give us a lot of flexibility to redistribute loads which is a really nice feature.

We would like to modify the fwd anchor locker area (it is just way too small)/ add a bow anchor/roller, chain locker and winch in addition to a bow seat .... this has us concerned with fore/aft weight distribution and potential handling consequences.

Our plans also include raising and transporting our mast/boom/furler in a level manner higher than a BYW small dodger.
This would be nice for us when motoring but it would also raise the CG of the vessel.

Hopefully this discussion picks up again as the topic of comparison between a Mac26X and a Max26M is of interest, especially with interior structural item.

[kmclemore]

Funny this thread fizzled......

(.....)

Hopefully this discussion picks up again as the topic of comparison between a Mac26X and a Max26M is of interest, especially with interior structural item.

I can’t say I’m surprised. I must admit I’m put off by the thread title alone - it smacks of trolling for reaction... as if it were designed to get folks wound up and at odds with each other, which isn’t what this board is about. The two boats (and variations of both throughout their build history, since neither was built to a monolithic uniform standard) are different in many ways, and folks who own them enjoy their differing aspects and features. It isn’t about being “better”... just different. Vive la différence.

Also, as interesting as the topic may be, differences in Mac26 models has been discussed ad nauseum on this board for more than 20 years. I think many, like me, are simply tired of the discussion. The old threads are still available for reading if one wants such information and opinions... it’s just tiresome dragging up that old chestnut and having to reiterate the same things you’ve said 20 times before.

[OverEasy]

We can see, understand and agree with kmclemore thought and perspectives.
Didn’t intend on making it a competitiveness thing between two very good designs that so many individuals throughly enjoy sailing.
The older discussions are beneficial in the aspect of those perspectives voices.

What we found interesting is the way common design challenges are addressed successfully with different solutions as in the weight and balance aspect. It was opening a line of thought of consideration that a vessel has aspects that some may not have seen superficially but are different equally good elegant solutions of equal validity.

MacGregor, in his design of the Mac26X and the Mac26M (as well as his other designs for the Ventures and Tattoos) was IMHO rather brilliant in being willing to try different valid solutions to the common design considerations while also working along a common design concept and material/process capability. The legacy of his efforts is demonstrated with (to at least some extent) by the number of vessels still in active happy enjoyable use by multiple generations. That is no small accomplishment and bespeaks of his understanding of both product design, customer desires, material capability and performance as well as production and business operations.

We admire and respect the capabilities of this remarkable individual and all of his products.

We also admire and respect the owners who share their own perspectives and insights as well as their own solutions to improving a design to suit their individual needs and desires. It is the willingness to recognize that “perfection” is something that is unique to individual desires and may never be fully realized but is worth pursuing for its own enjoyments either directly by one’s own efforts or indirectly in the appreciation of the efforts of others.

The civil dialog of individuals appreciation and perspectives around a common design is beneficial and enjoyable is what we were referring to. A lot of the members of this forum have a huge wealth of individual and professional knowledge that they share with others to directly and indirectly improve the knowledge and appreciation of all. We believe the current term in use is “Paying it forward”.

We personally have appreciated this and it has influenced our own design modifications and in the revisions to those designs. We believe in a philosophy that there is always room for innovation and appreciation of differing perspectives in a civil polite open discussion.

[Inquisitor]

Like your new Avatar!

[Inquisitor]

"The deck liners have molded-in runs that allow dealers and owners to install wire to all areas where it might be needed for extra lights, instruments, etc."

Interesting: Where are all these molded-in runs? Interesting to know...

Yes, very interesting... although, I bet it's simply the lips on the upper liner that all the wires fall out of now.

[kmclemore]

Like your new Avatar!

Thanks! As I noted over in the Australia section, the avatar is somewhat tongue in cheek ... it’s from a photo during a Halloween car rally last October where I used my captain's uniform to dress like the captain of the Titanic and Jan played ship’s surgeon using a mate's uniform (from the Canadian Navy, actually!). If you look closely you might make out the White Star Line badges I made for my cap and her nameplate. Great fun... I drove our vintage MG, but we damn near froze our bottoms off... it was a very chilly day!

After the ride, at an outdoor dinner gathering of the car club (Covid compliant, of course!)...



What I was attempting to emulate:



...and the chilly ride....

[Inquisitor]

TF1500?

My Dad had one when they were new. He always wanted one again.