Honda BF50 "kicking" in reverse

[DaveC426913]

#1 a wheel bearing failure is a way more catastrophic an event "think " of a wheel flying off going down the road & what that could detail ? plus now u r draggin ur boat & trl frame on the ground while maybe sliding into a ditch or another car ?

No one mentioned anything about bearing failure.

#2 A brake failure "seized" is easily released thru either opening a bleeder on said brake or loosen the brake line & maybe require prying the brake caliper open .

We went with hammer and lots of WD-40.

I,m qualified to drive 18 wheelers so this would b no problem for me , but I would recommend a tow company in ur case

I wouldn't take offense at that, except...

#6 All ur dilemma,s r self inflicted wounds caused from lack of concern for safety , reg. maintenance, reg. inspections , do u even know what a circle check is !

This sounds awfully judgey.

#7 This is not a direct attack on u personally

Just sort of "free-range" judginess then?

#4 U actually drove a boat sitting on a trailer improperly rubbing & or pushing a fender up against a tire " really" or r u saying it moved while trailering

It was offset, but not dangerously so. It was not rubbing, but an couple of inches away.
Went to the mechanics with no trouble.
Checked it before heading back, and it was the same - a comfortable gap.
But it was definitely seized.

I checked it, but it still had a gap. This is why I dismissed it at first.
That's why I suspect it was a combination of a seized brake and rubbing.

driving an un secured load down the road is a MAJOR SAFETY driving violation & can only b done with police & proper emergency vehicles in rare exceptions & only to get said vehicle off the road in the shortish distance poss.

Who mentioned anything about an unsecure load? (OK, sure, but you didn't know that. )

#5 Not sure u had the right ball size on the tow vehicle or if tow vehicle was adequate ?

At first, we only had a 1 7/8 ball. And the to vehicle was (surprisingly) small. I hadn't known that when I asked my friend for help.
One of my going theories was that the tow vehicle (a small pickup) couldn't support the tongue weight, and thus the trailer was sloping into the hitch, meaning the surge brakes were locked.

When I switched to a larger tow vehicle, with a two inch ball I was able to invalidate that theory - the wheel was definitely still locking. So it wasn't just the inadequacy of the tow vehicle.

#8 Now that,s off my chest , lets us all know what the final resolve of ur issue ! comes out to B ?

Back at club without further incident.

May never really find exact cause, but take-away lesson is:
1. Ensure adequate power, height and suspension of tow vehicle, proper ball size.
2. Boat MUST be centred when hauled out.
3. Secure boat against shifting, even on short runs.
4. Beef up fenders to prevent rubbing.
5. Oil and check tongue/brakes prior to trailering.
6. Do a circle check.
7. Obviously, keep trailer properly maintained, and check regularly before and after any trip.

[DaveC426913]

Update:

Good news:
FINALLY IN THE WATER! SUMMER BEGINS!
Pretty much the third boat at my club to be in the water with stick up. It's kind of spooky quiet.

It was nice to be out on the lake tho. I pretty much had it all to myself.

Bad news:
$400 later, and my gear shift is no better. Still jumps in reverse as bad as before.

Other bad news:
Once the boat was off the trailer, the brakes have nothing to stop them from locking up. My buddy, who rented a tow vehicle, didn't get it more than 300 yards from the public dock before he had to ditch it at a gas station. He said the trailer started bucking from the seized wheel.

By buddie's buddie's buddy is gonna pick it up and fix it.

[Jimmyt]

Glad you're in the water. Hate the reverse issue is still plaguing you. Once brakes start binding like that, it's best to replace them. Sounds like that's where you're headed, so no more worries with that. You may want him to replace the bearings (possibly hubs too) while you're at it. Trailer brakes and bearings have a hard life; especially in salt or brackish water, but even fresh water and outdoor storage will do a number on them.

Good news is, being a man, you don't need reverse anyway; or directions; or hair products.

I'm sure by the end of the season, you will have your no-reverse docking procedure dialed-in.

[DaveC426913]

Well, my "guy" came to take my trailer back to his shop. One wheel was seized just enough that, without the weight of the boat, it just dragged - he had to take the brake pads out so it would spin freely. And he jammed a rod into the tongue to stop the cylinder from activating when stopping.

There is, of course, the remaining question of whether the master cylinder is kaput.

I am considering how necessary the brakes are. I never take my boat anywhere but from the hard to the launch pad, and only occasionally up to the outboard repair shop. Never on any trips longer than 2 miles.

[Catigale]

Two miles trips at under 50 kphmim guessing. Ignore those brakes

[Jimmyt]

Well, my "guy" came to take my trailer back to his shop. One wheel was seized just enough that, without the weight of the boat, it just dragged - he had to take the brake pads out so it would spin freely. And he jammed a rod into the tongue to stop the cylinder from activating when stopping.

There is, of course, the remaining question of whether the master cylinder is kaput.

I am considering how necessary the brakes are. I never take my boat anywhere but from the hard to the launch pad, and only occasionally up to the outboard repair shop. Never on any trips longer than 2 miles.

Agree with Catigale. If you NEVER tow the boat more than 2 miles at low speed, and keep the trailer in the weather, brakes are going to be more trouble than they're worth.

[DaveC426913]

Hm. Got a bit off-track with the trailer problems. Back to "kicking".

My local Marine Repair shop can't fit me in because they can't get their boats off-site due to Covid-19.
Lots of correspondence blah blah long story short ...

... I am now looking at doing the job on-site. And possibly do it myself - or at least with a friend who is a Small Engine Repair Mechanic.

The gear case is gonna set me back $2500. But really, the actual repair is simply replacing it. I do this every year when I replace the impellor.

Here is my question:

Between me and my SERM friend, is it reasonable that we might have the skilz and patience to get the shaft out and possibly repair the clutch? I mean, the mechanic at my repair shop broke his tool doing it, but maybe he did it wrong.

If I don't try, I pay $2500 to replace something that might have been repaired. If I do try, I risk failure - possibly delaying launch day,

[Russ]

Are you simply replacing the lower gear unit? The same unit you remove to replace the impeller?

I'm not understanding what would be difficult. What tool did your shop break doing that?

[Tomfoolery]

Are you simply replacing the lower gear unit? The same unit you remove to replace the impeller?

I'm not understanding what would be difficult. What tool did your shop break doing that?

I took it to mean he broke a tool trying to get that big bearing retainer nut out. The thin ring with male threads under the prop that threads into the lower unit housing.

I need to replace the two seals on the outboard end of the shaft, but there's no way I'm even going to try to remove that ring. Fresh water engine or not, at 22 years old, it's welded in there, I'm sure.

[opie]

It gets cheaper every time I post the link...

[DaveC426913]

Are you simply replacing the lower gear unit? The same unit you remove to replace the impeller?

I'm not understanding what would be difficult. What tool did your shop break doing that?

Sorry, I did not explain myself well.

To save $2500, I am thinking about repairing the existing unit (the reverse clutch is slipping).

That requires pulling the prop shaft off. That's what broke the mechanic's tool. Not a novice-level job.

I wouldn't even try except my buddy apprenticed as a SERM, and thinks it's at least worth trying.

If that's a no-go, then I'll go ahead and purchase a new gear unit. And that should be a breeze to replace.

[beechkingd]

Use a couple of propane torches on the outside of the case around that large nut while you are trying to loosen it. The heat from a propane torch won't damage the large aluminum case, do not use an acetylene torch. I've removed that nut from a couple of different salt water OB's that way and didn't even have the "proper" tool.

[DaveC426913]

Use a couple of propane torches on the outside of the case around that large nut while you are trying to loosen it. The heat from a propane torch won't damage the large aluminum case, do not use an acetylene torch. I've removed that nut from a couple of different salt water OB's that way and didn't even have the "proper" tool.

I'll try that (I think).
BTW, I'm in fresh water.

[Russ]

The linkage seems like a possible cause.
If not, I'm with Opie, a new lower unit is the least painful solution. Less than a boat buck and can be a DIY project.

I found a couple of interesting youtube videos on the subject.









I love this guy's channel

[DaveC426913]

Did a little consulting with my Marine Mechanic friend.

There's not a lot pf point in putting a spankin' new gearbox on a 20 year old boat. That money will surely be needed for something else that will fail sooner. So: I need to look for rebuilt gearboxes for my motor - ideally here in Ontario. No idea how to go about that.

My friend wonders if the clutch is really the problem. Based on how my shifter/throttle behaves, he wonders if there's something we can do there that might get the prop engaged while still at idle, thus avoiding the clutch kicking out. There might still br damage to the gearbox, but it can't hurt to check out the shifter cables anyway.