Why is motorized steering so hard with rudders down

[ErnieKim]

I don’t understand the physics of hard steering usher under power and rudders down. Can anyone please tell me why this is. It steers fine otherwise. Just got the boat and went down hard with heart issues related to COVID. Just getting back and the boat and this puzzles me,
Thanks
Kim

[ErnieKim]

I should have said steering hard when motoring with rudders down?
Thanks

[DaveC426913]

Question zero, before any other question:

Are your rudders, in fact, all the way down and locked in place with zero slack?
(If you can't pluck them like a guitar, they may be too loose. )

A known bugaboo with Macs, with their simple line/cleat rudder locks, is that it is very easy to leave a lot of slop in the line, and therefore in the rudder. If they are anywhere but completely vertical, then it becomes very difficult to turn the wheel. So much so that most Mac owners - when the wheel mysteriously feels hard to turn - will immediately check to see if their rudders are locked in full-down position.

[Jimmyt]

I don’t understand the physics of hard steering usher under power and rudders down. Can anyone please tell me why this is. It steers fine otherwise. Just got the boat and went down hard with heart issues related to COVID. Just getting back and the boat and this puzzles me,
Thanks
Kim

Welcome to the forum! Sorry to hear that you have been down, and glad you're on your way back.

If your steering effort is noticeably different when motoring rudders up vs rudders down, my only guess is your motor and rudders are not aligned properly.

I'm assuming that you are motoring at 6 knots or less with rudders fully down. You should never motor faster than hull speed with rudders down.

If you can add any more detail to your problem description it might help.

If you motor with rudders up, is less steering effort required? What speed were you motoring? Have you or a previous owner done any motor or steering linkage mods, jack plate, setback bracket, etc that may have caused a linkage issue?

[Starscream]

Question zero, before any other question:

Are your rudders, in fact, all the way down and locked in place with zero slack?
(If you can't pluck them like a guitar, they may be too loose. )

A known bugaboo with Macs, with their simple line/cleat rudder locks, is that it is very easy to leave a lot of slop in the line, and therefore in the rudder. If they are anywhere but completely vertical, then it becomes very difficult to turn the wheel. So much so that most Mac owners - when the wheel mysteriously feels hard to turn - will immediately check to see if their rudders are locked in full-down position.

Exactly.

Rudders have to be all the way down, and cleated down. If they come up even a bit, it makes steering next to impossible. The rudder lines, if properly run, can be used as effective downhauls.

Sooooo many people have the same question on FB, and I always post this as the answer. I have also posted my setup for emergency rudder kick-up, which is to use a 1/4" line for the rudders, and once they are hauled down, to NOT cleat the line off, but to wrap it several times around the cleat. That way, in a grounding, the loops around the cleat will (in theory) allow the rudders to kick up. I've tested the theory in anger three times now, and it has worked each time without damage. If the loops are done properly there is enough friction to hold the rudders down in normal operation.

I've seen those shock-release cleats that some people use, but haven't bothered, since the cleat-loops are working fine.

[pitchpolehobie]

Question zero, before any other question:

Are your rudders, in fact, all the way down and locked in place with zero slack?
(If you can't pluck them like a guitar, they may be too loose. )

A known bugaboo with Macs, with their simple line/cleat rudder locks, is that it is very easy to leave a lot of slop in the line, and therefore in the rudder. If they are anywhere but completely vertical, then it becomes very difficult to turn the wheel. So much so that most Mac owners - when the wheel mysteriously feels hard to turn - will immediately check to see if their rudders are locked in full-down position.

Exactly.

Rudders have to be all the way down, and cleated down. If they come up even a bit, it makes steering next to impossible. The rudder lines, if properly run, can be used as effective downhauls.

Sooooo many people have the same question on FB, and I always post this as the answer. I have also posted my setup for emergency rudder kick-up, which is to use a 1/4" line for the rudders, and once they are hauled down, to NOT cleat the line off, but to wrap it several times around the cleat. That way, in a grounding, the loops around the cleat will (in theory) allow the rudders to kick up. I've tested the theory in anger three times now, and it has worked each time without damage. If the loops are done properly there is enough friction to hold the rudders down in normal operation.

I've seen those shock-release cleats that some people use, but haven't bothered, since the cleat-loops are working fine.

going to borrow that idea thanks!

[Be Free]

I have a section of shock cord in my rudder down haul. The top part of the down haul is locked into a cam cleat. When the down haul is tensioned the shock card will allow the rudder to lift up a little and then pull back down when it hits something. If it lifts up enough to take all of the "stretch" out of the shock cord then the cam cleat releases the down haul completely.

[DaveC426913]

But to the OP's problem: I don't recommend installing these types of rudder kick-ups without first solving your stiff steering problem. That would just add unwarranted cruft to the problem.

[Be Free]

In answer to the original question: In my experience, motorized steering is hard when the rudders are down because the rudders are not all the way down.

The first thing I check when the steering gets stiff is whether or not one or both rudders have come unlocked. Just being up an inch or so makes a noticeable difference in the steering. It could be a misaligned rudder or a problem with the steering linkage. Those are problems that are easier to work on when the boat is on the trailer.

Are your rudders all the way down e.g. are the locked firmly against the transom and the down haul line securely fastened to prevent accidental movement during normal operation?

Are you exceeding 6 knots with the rudders down? Rudders and center board should be raised when motoring above (approximately) 6 knots.

[SlowSL]

Sooooo many people have the same question on FB, and I always post this as the answer. I have also posted my setup for emergency rudder kick-up, which is to use a 1/4" line for the rudders, and once they are hauled down, to NOT cleat the line off, but to wrap it several times around the cleat. That way, in a grounding, the loops around the cleat will (in theory) allow the rudders to kick up. I've tested the theory in anger three times now, and it has worked each time without damage. If the loops are done properly there is enough friction to hold the rudders down in normal operation.

I've seen those shock-release cleats that some people use, but haven't bothered, since the cleat-loops are working fine.

This is a great idea, I'll have to start doing this.

[kurz]

Maybe you should fix the motor in the center and disconnect it from the rudder.

Then just steer with the rudder very easily.

Or steer with OB hooked on And the rudder down. As you have all the weight of the OB, it is harder to turn.

but if you make just small steering movements you can steer just with the rudders because you have play in the linkage of the OB connect. So this little steering gives you a steering with no effort. But you need some time too the boat reacts..

[Highlander]

Just how fast r u going with the rudders down too fast will also make for very hard steering , is ur issue stiff steering at very slow speeds also if not u might b just going to fast with rudders down disconnect the rudders & engine & see if the steering is still hard with no load then it,s likely ur steering cable is needing replaced ! or the helm gear
J

[OverEasy]

I have a section of shock cord in my rudder down haul. The top part of the down haul is locked into a cam cleat. When the down haul is tensioned the shock card will allow the rudder to lift up a little and then pull back down when it hits something. If it lifts up enough to take all of the "stretch" out of the shock cord then the cam cleat releases the down haul completely.

Hi Be Free!
Could you explain further on the “shock cleat” arrangement you mentioned?
We’ve been concerned about grounding and the impact to the rudders and possible breakage.
Our current Rube Goldberg solution has been to have a length of ‘break-away 50 lb’ Line as a sacrificial.
While it “works” in calm conditions and slow speeds it also means we would have to fish out the broken end, retie it and re-secure the rudder(s). Not the most pleasant thought if conditions are more advanced…

A picture would help if possible.
Thanks!

Best Regards
Over Easy

[Russ]

Here's how I tie my rudders. the line goes under-through the clean with the tied off park offering friction, yet it can give way if it hits something.
The "cleated" end is there just to offer a loop for the resistance.

On the M, the line holding rudders down goes down (to the right in the photo), with the tail (left of the photo).

[Be Free]

I have a section of shock cord in my rudder down haul. The top part of the down haul is locked into a cam cleat. When the down haul is tensioned the shock card will allow the rudder to lift up a little and then pull back down when it hits something. If it lifts up enough to take all of the "stretch" out of the shock cord then the cam cleat releases the down haul completely.

Hi Be Free!
Could you explain further on the “shock cleat” arrangement you mentioned?
We’ve been concerned about grounding and the impact to the rudders and possible breakage.
Our current Rube Goldberg solution has been to have a length of ‘break-away 50 lb’ Line as a sacrificial.
While it “works” in calm conditions and slow speeds it also means we would have to fish out the broken end, retie it and re-secure the rudder(s). Not the most pleasant thought if conditions are more advanced…

A picture would help if possible.
Thanks!

Best Regards
Over Easy

The blue line is for lifting the rudder. The white line is for pulling it down. There is a section of elastic shock cord connecting them.


When the rudder is down the shock cord (white with black lines) is held by the cam cleat and is under a slight amount of tension. The shock cord will allow the rudder to lift and then pull back down if it hits something small.


If the strike lifts the rudder beyond what the shock cord can absorb then the cam cleat will open and allow the rudder to raise up as much as needed. I loop the blue line around the cleat (top picture) to keep it from falling into the water if the cam cleat releases.