Great Loop on a 26X?

[billder99]

ADD-EDIT: If you are interested in the Great Loop, I started another thread on Sailboat Owners Forum... it's turned into a really excellent thread, a TON of info pertinent to planning a Great Loop adventure, and some showing specific benefits of the Mac 26X as a Loop boat : https://forums.sailboatowners.com/threa ... 249932288/

I'm in the midst of selecting my boat for the Great Loop. My wife and I will be doing it on a sailboat for 100% sure... preferences are 27'-30', standing height interior, centerboard-keel for shallow draft, diesel, deck stepped mast. The 26X meets the intent of these criteria (if not the exact specs).

There is a lot to love about the 26X for the Great Loop... super shallow draft, super easy to step/unstep/transport mast, lots of flexibility with higher outboard speeds not available in any other boat (especially important is river currents), reportedly good sailing ability for capable sailors (I have many years sailing experience)... the interior headroom is adequate, the aft berth under cockpit appears roomy and comfy for two, adequate storage for supplies... I love the easy trailerability which adds huge flexibility to route choices

I have lots of questions and concerns about the 26X... I hope Forum members will comment:
1) Seaworthiness: I want to sail outside segments of the Inland Waterway on nice days, Chesapeke Bay sailing, Great Lakes sailing, Gulf Coast return to Florida... you can assume I will be prudent and cautious in watching the weather and currents... the McGregor has a VERY light rig... is it adequate for the type of sailing listed.
2) Tankage: Minimal if non-existent for water? Is there a toilet holding tank?? What tips do you Owners have for longer trips ?
4) Temperature Comfort: We don't need "big", we are happy camping in backpacking tents... the 26X after-bunk is comfy for us... I'm more concerned about COLD periods of time in the North... what are "best solutions" for heat? Has anyone here ever used a Big Buddy Heater on a McGregor?
5) Insects: Mosquitoes and NoSeeUms and Biting Flies and Bees... is there a pop-top insect screen available that I can buy?
6) Electrical System: Please provide links to Owners/Boats you are aware of that have done a great job with: solar panels, controller, charger, batteries, panel for control

[Jimmyt]

Chinook (Mike and Sandy) have done it, and did an excellent job of documenting it. I've enjoyed reading their account, and suggest you look it over. It's a good reference, and with their other info, answers many of the questions you're asking (and several you haven't thought of yet).

http://chinook.cecka.us/?cat=8

Ris has done it also, and can provide great input as well.

Welcome to the forum! Please keep posting as you flesh out your adventure.

[billder99]

Thanks Jimmy, this is excellent, I'll watch both videos and comment on what I learn.

[Starscream]

Thanks Jimmy, this is excellent, I'll watch both videos and comment on what I learn.

Here is the link to the Ris' great-loop page on their trawler-modified 26X. Their first great-loop was in 2019, so scroll down to the archives in that date range.
https://thejillkristy.wordpress.com/201 ... nt-page-1/

Pros and cons of doing it on a 26X vs a "real" sailboat. The 12" draft and swing keel are a huge plus, so are the ability to put on up to a 90HP outboard and MOVE when required. Having a boat with an outboard is a huge advantage on a great-loop. Imagine having to service an inboard diesel in the middle-of-nowhere. With an X, you could start the journey with a new motor, and mount a new kicker motor for when that new motor inevitably fails for some reason or other, at the worst possible place and time.

Downside is that the 26X was mostly sold as a blank shell, so there is no "standard" to what comes with the boat. A factory-new boat didn't have enough options available to prepare it for a great-loop, so a lot have been heavily modified by their owners over the years. The upside to the downside is that they are easy to modify the way you like. They really didn't have any electronics, tankage, or anything to start with from the factory.

It's also a small, light, 26ft boat. There's not a lot of room down below, but better than any other 26ft sailboat. A critical add for the greatloop imo is a full cockpit enclosure. It adds sooo much extra usable room.

Good luck, keep us posted.

[NiceAft]

A total of three Mac owners have done the great loop.

Chinook did it with the mast attached.
Ris did it twice, mastless. Both had
I don't remember what the member from Texas had when he did the loop.

Chinook trailered from Washington State to Chicago, where he started their trip.
Ris started in Florida, and I believe the fellow from Texas started on the Gulf.

[OverEasy]

Wow!
We knew the Mac26X was a great model but that model having done the Great Loop 3 times is amazing!

We seem to recall there was another Mac that sailed the Caribbean and down to Brazil to go up the Amazon!
He rigged up side flotation on adjustable brackets and a wooden side pontoon at some point.
There was some plans to sail it to Hawaii but he changed his mind on that trip …..
Wish we could remember his name and the name of his boat….

Best Regards
Over Easy

[NiceAft]

We seem to recall there was another Mac that sailed the Caribbean and down to Brazil to go up the Amazon!

I believe you may be referring to MaddMike in Zeno's Arrow.

P.S. He donated Zeno's Arrow to a Boy Scout group in Montana.

[OverEasy]

Hi NiceAft!

THAT’S HIM!!!

THANKS

Best Regards
Over Easy

[ris]

This is RIS will not comment on sailing the Mac 26X as we have never sailed ours. We did cross the gulf from Carrabelle Fl to Steinhatchee Fl with waves on the beam of 3 to 5 ft. Not a pleasant 4 hrs but did fine with no mast to counter the waves.
Tankage: We installed a 30 gallon Plastimo water bag. Still using it 5 years later. We installed a water manifold so we can pump water into the boat using the standard pump that also pumps to our 2 sinks.
Toilet: We installed a natures head composting toilet. We have used it for 8 to 9 months a year for the past 5 years and it works great. For two people empty liquids every 2 days(2 gallon bottle) solids emptied every 3 to 4 weeks. Takes 20 minutes to dump, replace coconut core fiber and reinstall.
Fridge: Some type of 12 volt fridge, we have a Engle but there are others that are half the price. We will buy a Engle again.
Stove: We installed a propane stove and use a aluminum 1.5 gallon propane tank. Lots of folks are happy with Alcohol stove.
Cushions: We put all new cushions in. Used 4 inch firm for bed, 3 inch firm for all seats and 2 inch soft for all seat backs. All bought from the foam factory online. Wife made covers.
Heat: 99% of the time on the loop you are around 80 F degrees. Do not use a buddy on the boat as they are way to hot. If you think you must have heat, get a Olympic wave catalytic heater no larger than 3000 btu as it is the smallest. By the time we make coffee each morning the boat is warm. The only time we might have needed heat was on the east coast in the spring. We carried a small 1200 watt electric heater and went to marinas when we needed heat. This was usually a cold front so a marina was nice to get out and about on very windy days. You could take two sleeping bags. We have sleeping blankets we made during our lightweight hiking days in the late 90s.
Sleeping: We enlarged the short side of the v-berth and sleep there. We use the aft area under the cockpit for storage.
Insects: We put an entire enclosure on our boat. You can put a screen on the front hatch with Velcro. And make or buy a snap in screen for the companion way. For sure get at least a Bimini for sun and rain. We would not have done the loop without the complete enclosure. A lot of folks are tougher than we are. We loved staying dry while driving and relaxing in pouring rain in the cockpit. Get a Thermacell for bugs. We got the $20 hand held green one. Still using it 6 years later. You avoid the worst bug season in most areas if you travel during the regular loop season.
Electrical: We rewired entire boat. Put in four Trojan 105 six volt batteries. 455 amphour. We bought a new Honda 60 which puts out 27 amps of 12 volt. 5 goes to motor and the rest to the batteries. Never had solar in 2 loops. Took a Honda 1000 on first loop but not on second as the motor charges the batteries very fast except for last 10%. Honda has over 1300 miles or about 1000 hrs on it. Still runs fine. Batteries are also over 5 years old. We have a Sterling Power smart charger and 1000 watt inverter. Inverter is much larger than needed. We have used the electric heater at the 650 watt setting on wet cold days running off the inverter BUT only while the engine was running and monitoring the batteries. We did this on bad weather days in which we traveled to take the chill off the cabin as we took turns driving and getting warm. Only 3 times on the whole loop did we do this.
You can find all this and more in the mods section. Many have done similar mods and better than we did.
Richard

[OverEasy]

Hi Ris!

Great write-up!
Great ideas that you put into action!
Great adventure!

If you don’t mind our asking,
- How long did it take you to complete the Loop?
- Did you do it in one go in a single season? or did you do in incrementally over several seasons?
- As you operated as a motor-cruiser what do you estimate your fuel usage was for a Loop trip?

Best Regards
Over Easy

[dlandersson]

You're evidently pretty smart. A guy, pre-pandemic, was taking X's and converting them to "trailer-cruisers" specifically for loops, etc.

1. The X is fine for coastal sailing less than 25 knots of wind
2. You can add water tank, several have
4. Can't address
5. Yes, mine was an OP custom job
6. Can't address

I'm in the midst of selecting my boat for the Great Loop. My wife and I will be doing it on a sailboat for 100% sure... preferences are 27'-30', standing height interior, centerboard-keel, diesel, deck stepped mast. The 26X meets the intent of these criteria (if not the exact specs).

There is a lot to love about the 26X for the Great Loop... super shallow draft, super easy to step and unstep mast, lots of flexibility with higher outboard speeds not available in any other boat (especially important is river currents), reportedly good sailing ability for capable sailors (I have many years sailing experience)... the interior headroom is adequate, the aft berth under cockpit appears roomy and comfy for two, adequate storage for supplies... I love the easy trailerability which adds huge flexibility to route choices

I have lots of questions and concerns about the 26X... I hope Forum members will comment:
1) Seaworthiness: I want to sail outside segments of the Inland Waterway on nice days, Chesapeke Bay sailing, Great Lakes sailing, Gulf Coast return to Florida... you can assume I will be prudent and cautious in watching the weather and currents... the McGregor has a VERY light rig... is it adequate for the type of sailing listed.
2) Tankage: Minimal if non-existent for water? Is there a toilet holding tank?? What tips do you Owners have for longer trips ?
4) Temperature Comfort: We don't need "big", we are happy camping in backpacking tents... the 26X after-bunk is comfy for us... I'm more concerned about COLD periods of time in the North... what are "best solutions" for heat? Has anyone here ever used a Big Buddy Heater on a McGregor?
5) Insects: Mosquitoes and NoSeeUms and Biting Flies and Bees... is there a pop-top insect screen available that I can buy?
6) Electrical System: Please provide links to Owners/Boats you are aware of that have done a great job with: solar panels, controller, charger, batteries, panel for control

[ris]

The loop can easily be completed in 12 months. Almost everyone spends winter in Florida. If you live in Florida 8 to 9 months is average. (for us 8months 6 days) If you have the time 2 years is a good amount of time to explore a bit more slowly on the loop. Many people section the loop if they are still working and have a trailerable boat. That gives you even more time to really explore a section of the loop. This is what we plan for summer of 22 is to explore Canada a bit slower after trailering the boat from Florida.
We did the conventional route in 2016 and that year 3 Macs did the loop, traveling part of the way together. In 2019 we traveled from Florida up through Lake Champlain, Montreal, Ottawa, Trent Severn Waterway to Lake Superior (2 days) then down Lake Huron to Cleveland on Lake Erie. Canadian Mac friend hauled us over land with his Mac Trailer to the Ohio River near Pittsburg. We then went down the Ohio to Tennessee River and joined the normal loop back to Florida.
We almost never go as slow as hull speed. (6.? mph) We travel about 8 mph unless in hurry because of weather and then go about 12 mph. At 8 mph we get about 7 mpg. So 6,000 miles at 7 mpg about 850 to 950 gallons of gas. I have the exact figures somewhere. First trip no autopilot, second trip autopilot. Autopilot is the only way to travel that far. Pic below is going down the Tennessee Tombigbee Waterway toward Mobile Alabama.



If you wonder what its like in a lock on the Tennessee River, 600 feet long X 110 feet wide and this lock is a 65 foot lift. It makes you feel small

[OverEasy]

Hi Billder99

For what it’s worth…( probably not much compared to others who have actually undertaken doing the Loop like Ris and others )

Q1: We’ve been in 3 foot waves for a couple hours motoring several times.
(IMHO: We think Seamanship in any wave conditions that can get above the gunnels is require for any vessel. We feel that High waves should generally be taken head on if possible and avoided from directly astern and the cabin panel should be in place. A valid rated PFD should be worn in such conditions by all crew outside of the cabin area.)

Q2: Tankage Part 1: Fresh Water - There are no factory installed fresh water holding tanks on Macs.
- We’ve generally done well with bottled water with screw caps like Smart Water in the larger bottles. They store well, can be distributed to balance the boat when needed, are tough, and easy to use. They are also refillable from the tap. We also carry several of the smaller ‘sport’ version to have readily available for drinking and in the cockpit while under way. These smaller bottles fit nicely in our electric cooler to get chilled for those hot days. We choose to limit our non-Marina cooking to boiling water type meals and to disposable paper goods to minimize water use for clean-up. In the Marina we have access to a slip with water hose/shore facilities/grey water disposal. (Note: Soapy water is considered grey water and currently most marinas & state DNR prohibit dumping it overboard in coastal areas regardless of how a boat’s plumbing was originally set up. )

Q3: Tankage Part 2: There is no factory installed Grey or Black water tanks on Macs.
- Waste Storage Grey Water - We currently minimize Grey water generation when out of a marina. We utilize a dedicated screw top 2 gallon tank with a handle that can easily carried ashore and disposed of properly. This minimizes cabin clutter for us yet is still large enough to be functional. In the future we will most likely add a larger grey water holding tank that can be pumped at shore facilities or blown out at home.
- Waste Storage Black Water - We currently utilize a 5 gallon Port-a-let with a built in flush water tank. For two adults this generally lasts about 5 days till full. Generally we haul it ashore and dump at appropriate sanitary shore facilities. Some marinas have pump-out capabilities and this can be done as well. In the future we will most likely add fittings to the top deck to better facilitate the pump-out process at marinas yet still retain the ability to manually haul out the unit for proper shore disposal at a Marina/park/outhouse/ or home facility.

Q4: Temperature Comfort:
- Ambient- The fwd hatch and cabin main hatch generally provide adequate ambient ventilation. There are several aftermarket and DIY screens available for both openings.
- Cooling & Dehumidification : We chose to add a Portable Air Conditioning (A/C) unit that currently runs off of 115VAC shore power. A 1500 BTU unit is more than sufficient in SC and a bit of overkill up North. Often just running on the dehumidify setting is enough to make things comfortable. Currently we are using a single exhaust hose type which uses a small portion of the cabin air to cool the condenser which is made up by outside air coming in. Maybe not the most efficient but still very effective and it does keep the cabin air fresh. In the future we may convert to a dual hose type system but not for now.
- Heating: We use a small 350 Watt 115 VAC plug-in s cocker heater as a primary in-Marina heater. It is a fan type with a digital thermostat and 12 hr max timer. This does a pretty good job of keeping the cabin area warm in the 68 to 75 F range down to ambient conditions of the mid 40 F area. This low wattage heater will also work off an inverter tied to a dedicated house battery (Not the Start Battery) - Below the mid-40 F aspect that we have a larger dual range electric heater 115VAC heater we have only needed to run in the low range of 900 Watts. It has a fan, dial thermostat and oscillation. At mid temp setting of about 68 F it runs about 60 % of the time even when ambient conditions outside have been below freezing throughout the night.
Note: We do use foam tubing to seal up around the cabin main hatch and panel to minimize heat loss.

Q5: Bug Control: As mentioned above there are several aftermarket and DIY screen available for the fwd hatch and main hatch areas. Our PO was nice and provided a weighted drape screen and a companionway panel set with screens. These work well for our needs.
- A full enclosure would be a DREAM solution but at the present time it’s just not in the financial plan as these can be costly. Our interim plan is to utilize what we have and good bug spray which has been working for us. Our interim functional “backup plan” if needed is a large drape screening over the Bimini/cockpit and companionway. Not pretty but still functional, inexpensive, easy to deploy and take down. It also will store on a small duffel when not needed.

Q6: Electrical:
- DC: The factory 12 VDC system is functional but minimal on Macs. The factory system was set-up for a single 12 VDC start battery. This is ok for basic sailing and occasional as required lighting.
Most people add a second battery and an isolation selector switch as a start point in their modifications. Modifications go further as individual needs and desires dictate. Using the proper switches, marine grade wire type, wire size, fuses/circuit-breakers, proper bus bars and more all come into play for a safe, functional and reliable DC power system that go beyond this particular thread.
-AC: There is no factory 115 Vac or 230 VAC system. That is an owner modification entirely. There are several considerations one needs to fully understand and properly incorporate for a safe, functional and reliable AC power system that go beyond this particular thread.

Hope this helps!
Over Easy

[OverEasy]

Hi Ris!

Thank You!

Wow! That lock is HUMONGOUS!!!
I’d feel like the toy boat in the bath!

This was very helpful and informative!

12 months is reasonable but fir us at a single continuous stretch might/would probably be more than we could bite off
Breaking it up into smaller segments of 1 to 2 to 3 months each might work though.
We like your idea of taking it slow and exploring/enjoying the journey.
(We’ve done the races, sprints and marathons earlier in life and don’t feel the need for it at this stage.. )

Our hope is to continue exploring the estuaries and ICW both North & South of Beaufort SC once we get our as yet still undelivered new engine (or at least after we refurbish our vintage 2001 50 hp Tohatsu).
We spent 2021 using our Mac26X as a motor-cruiser both down south on numerous day trips exploring our estuaries and at Lake Champlain where we lived aboard for 70 nights.
We really enjoyed it all and look forward to further travels in 2022 even though our adventures are considerably less ambitious at the moment. Our plans include getting back to Lake Champlain this summer & fall.

We hope you have a truly wonderful 2022 journey and look forward to hearing of your adventures!

Again, Thank You!

Best Regards
Over Easy

[billder99]

Tankage: We installed a 30 gallon Plastimo water bag....also pumps to our 2 sinks.
Toilet: Natures head composting toilet.
Fridge: Some type of 12 volt fridge.
Stove: Lots of folks are happy with Alcohol stove.
Heat: Little Buddy is only 3,800BTU... two sleeping bags... hull yes
Insects: We put an entire enclosure on our boat. You can put a screen on the front hatch with Velcro. And make or buy a snap in screen for the companion way. For sure get at least a Bimini for sun and rain.
Electrical: We rewired entire boat. Put in four Trojan 105 six volt batteries. 455 amphour. We bought a new Honda 60 which puts out 27 amps of 12 volt. 5 goes to motor and the rest to the batteries. Never had solar in 2 loops. Took a Honda 1000 on first loop but not on second as the motor charges the batteries very fast except for last 10%. Honda has over 1300 miles or about 1000 hrs on it. Still runs fine. Batteries are also over 5 years old. We have a Sterling Power smart charger and 1000 watt inverter. Inverter is much larger than needed. We have used the electric heater at the 650 watt setting on wet cold days running off the inverter BUT only while the engine was running and monitoring the batteries. We did this on bad weather days in which we traveled to take the chill off the cabin as we took turns driving and getting warm. Only 3 times on the whole loop did we do this.
You can find all this and more in the mods section. Many have done similar mods and better than we did.
Richard

Richard: I read everything I could find on your two trips, great adventures! Thanks very much for your tips and sharing your experience... I condensed (and commented on) your notes to the ones I will use. The 26X is small, but fills most of the boat specs I'm looking for.