In need of a MacGregor mentor - update 2 at top

[Be Free]

it is under the vberth and it does have a collar - although I wouldn't have known what that part was called.

So, when the ballast tank is full and I'm sailing or motoring around, do I "have to" put the plug back in? Or does water continue to fill the boat and eventually enter the cabin? I'm gathering the answer to that is 'no' by reading these threads, but I would rather find out the easy way in front of a computer--rather than at sea.

You must put the plug back in after it is full. The danger is not so much that the tank will empty into the boat but that as the water comes out of the tank it leaves the tank in a partially filled condition. The water sloshing from one side to the other in a partially filled tank is extremely dangerous to the stability of the boat.

The tank is full or it is empty; the only time is should be partially filled is when you have the transom valve open and you are in the process of filling or emptying the tank.

You fill the tank while you are stationary. If you are moving you will empty the tank in a way similar to the self-bailing feature of a power boat.

You empty the tank while you are motoring (never sailing) at low speed.

[Dougiestyle]

Hi, Welcome to the forum. Thanks for the cleaning tip, and I was having fun swimming underneath.

Did you get a NEW plug and tighten it up so it smashes the rubber out to fit tighter in the hole? Mine is loose until I tighten it.

[AmandaRuth]

Dougiestyle - thanks for the tip - I think it is tight enough to prevent splashing out just fine and it won't fall out of the collar. I was more concerned about a tight air seal--which I don't think matters as much after receiving all of the advice here.

I plan to put in the prior owner's retrofit for the warmer months...because it negated me from needing to run into the cabin while underway. I took some pics of what he installed after I disassembled it in case anyone is curious. (half a paper towel is in the photo for scale.)

The fix ultimately didn't work because there wasn't enough air pressure to move the little fan. Never saw any drops of water even in the collar with this installed.

[Russ]

It seems like the previous owner was trying to create a self tending vent.

Similar to this mod.

https://macgregorsailors.com/mods/index ... em&id=1884

[AmandaRuth]

Russ - If I understand correctly the modification you linked me to, that mod takes that water aft to the transom via a tube.

The modification I was showing only goes about 2' to that fan like valve the prior owner cut into the cabin. Water never even enters that tube...always dry. The fan never worked/spins because there wasn't enough air pressure to spin it. I attached another photo of where the meter is located near the plug...I circled it in red.



I'm thoroughly confused and concerned base upon "Be Free"'s response.

I never noticed an issue in ballast balance while healing over in winds...but maybe I was lucky.

I hold the transom valve open with a bungie the entire time from when I leave the dock to when I close it underway at 10 MPH for 8 mins to make sure it is empty when coming back to dock in the winter. In the warmer months same thing, but I keep the ballast full and the transom valve closed at the dock so critters don't get in. I use the boat enough that growth doesn't even occur if water is in there...so no need for chlorine tablets.

The prior owner was quite an engineer, so I don't think he would have installed something risky.

Maybe he hacked a solution not yet discovered?

Amanda

[Russ]

First, that "teak" flooring looks really nice. Was that done by the previous owner?

What I believe "Be Free" was referring to is from the factory design, the vent needs to be plugged else water can slosh out, especially while heeled. This refers to the original factory design.

From the Factory Manual

If the valve or vent plug is open, even slightly, the motion of the
boat can drain the ballast water from the tank or allow the boat
to fill with water. If either the vent plug or the filling valve is
open, ballast can be lost when the boat leans over under sail.

YOUR boat's vent has been modified so this does not apply. What it appears to me is that the previous owner extended the vent from the base under the cushions, with some tubing to that fitting that allows it to vent without the need to open the compartment to get underneath.

There are many ways to accomplish this. Many owners have simply done similar to yours and ran the vent tube up into the anchor locker.
The purpose of the ballast vent is to allow air to purge the ballast tanks while seawater is entering the main valve underwater on the transom.

The mod link I posted above ran the vent to the aft so the captain could see/hear the air rushing out.
Here's another much more complicated mod for the vent. It accomplishes similar results. Negating the need to go forward to open/close the ballast vent.
https://macgregorsailors.com/mods/index ... em&id=2094

What I believe your previous owner did was to raise the vent opening so water can't slosh out and route it to the inside of the cabin to make it easier to open and close.

In my opinion, that "fan-like" thing appears to be a sink drain fitting. My guess is the PO would open/plug it from inside the cabin negating the need to lift cushions to get to the factory plug. It's very clever and another way to raise the vent well above the water line so water can't slosh out when full.




With all that said......you should NOT leave the main ballast transom valve open while sailing! If I understood your post, you only close it when emptying the ballast or at the dock to keep critters out.

From the User Manual (you can download from the main site "Resources")

EXCEPT WHEN FILLING OR EMPTYING THE
WATER TANK, NEVER OPERATE THE BOAT
WITHOUT SECURELY CLOSING THE
TRANSOM VALVE AND VENT PLUG. If the
valve or vent plug is open, even slightly, the motion of the
boat can drain the ballast water from the tank or allow the boat
to fill with water. If either the vent plug or the filling valve is
open, ballast can be lost when the boat leans over under sail.
You may think the tank is full, and that the boat is self
righting, but you may be unpleasantly surprised by an
unexpected capsize. If the transom valve is left open, the
forward motion of the- boat can drain the tank, resulting in
capsize

It's okay to leave the transom valve open while the boat bounces around to ensure all the air pockets have been purged. But once full, it should be closed. ESPECIALLY if the vent is not airtight!

If the transom valve is closed, the vent does not need to be sealed shut because water can't escape.

I hope I've explained this correctly.

[Be Free]

Amanda,
What part of my post are you confused by? I'm glad to clarify.

Bill

[Jimmyt]

Not only for AmandaRuth, but the forum in general: My question is, how can you tell if the ballast is full with that rig (or with the hose to the anchor locker)? I have to look in the funnel to see the water level to insure I'm topped up. BOAT came up with a nifty gauge that tells him his ballast is full, and has a motorized vent valve in lieu of a drain plug. He can be confident he’s full without going forward.

All of that to say, you need to be positive that your ballast is completely full before sailing.

I hold the transom valve open with a bungie the entire time from when I leave the dock to when I close it underway at 10 MPH for 8 mins to make sure it is empty when coming back to dock in the winter.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting the above, but if this is your standard practice when sailing; open with a bungee"; you are lucky you haven't capsized. As stated by Russ and Be Free, the tank must be full with the ballast valve closed tight when sailing.

[Jimmyt]

And one other concern pops to mind…. Why do you have to bungee your ballast valve open? The seals should provide more than enough friction to hold it at any position. If your valve has enough slop to fall closed, you need to replace it.

[Russ]

I leave the vent open and rock the boat to purge air pockets. Honesty I don’t look into the vent hole. After bobbing around if I don’t hear/feel air coming out I assume it’s full.

My boat is heavy and often water is coming out of the vent as well. So I assume it’s full.

Maybe not the ideal method.

[Jimmyt]

If water is coming up in the funnel, it’s close enough!

I can’t hear well enough to tell if there is air noise during the final portion of the fill cycle. I can hear it at first.

Maybe we could install a whistle in the vent pipe…

I wonder if that device in AmandaRuth’s boat was some sort of a pinwheel indicator that is supposed to stop spinning when the tank is full? Probably looked good on paper. It would have to be super low-friction to spin at the near-full mark.

[AmandaRuth]

wow - I've been sailing like this with the prior owner and while I owned it for a total of about 8-9 years - guess I was lucky. Thanks for informing me.

I need to digest all of this info fully. I need to go get some chocolate to digest this news.

My initial reaction besides surprise and thankfulness, is dread of going out on the transom so much to open/close the valve. My typical day on water - is fast motor to sailing area. sail. fast motor around and back to dock. That is a lot of going on the transom while underway, compared to opening and closing it at the dock only.

I did replace the stern valve recently, and it would likely stay up without a bungee - just a habit to put it on there at this point.

I hate reaching the valve while underway. Maybe someone invented a crutch that can be used to open/close it without going on the transom or bending it by accident?

[Jimmyt]

I need to digest all of this info fully. I need to go get some chocolate to digest this news.

A kindred spirit! I can eat my weight in chocolate!

If I’m going to plane before sailing, I launch with the valve closed. Then, fast motor out to the sailing grounds. Then, I reduce speed to basically floating, and open the valve. I have to raise the seat and bend down to do it, but I’m able to easily do it. I let it fill while I’m lowering rudders, dropping the dagger, and getting everything else ready. After a few minutes, I (or crew) go forward to verify ballast fill level and insert the plug. Then I close the ballast valve, raise sails, and start enjoying life. Coming back in, I sometimes make a planing run to drain the ballast; (rudders up, dagger up, sails down, before opening ballast valve). Other times, I drain after loading on the trailer as I drag it up the ramp.

I understand your trepidation regarding operating the ballast valve while underway. So far, I haven’t fallen overboard while operating the ballast valve. I did get escorted overboard by an accidental gybe, but that’s a story for another day.

There have been various mods to get a remote operation for the ballast valve. Cable operation, longer T-handle, even a boat hook to operate the handle. I haven’t felt necessary to mad mine yet, but certainly understand your concerns.

[Russ]

wow - I've been sailing like this with the prior owner and while I owned it for a total of about 8-9 years - guess I was lucky. Thanks for informing me.

I need to digest all of this info fully. I need to go get some chocolate to digest this news.

I'm so glad you asked this question and now understand to keep the transom valve closed and ballast full.

My guess is you don't sail/heel the boat heavy and therefore hasn't been an issue. I will say, a partially filled ballast tank can be extremely dangerous. More dangerous than an empty one. Think of a cruise ship pool with water sloshing around. Instead of providing balance, it can pull the boat over.




We all use our boats differently. I fill the ballast ONCE in the spring when I launch and drop a chlorine tab in and forget about it until time to pull the boat out. Then I'll either power and open the vent/gate valve to drain it or drain it at the ramp. It's kind of fun to drain at the ramp and see how much water comes out.



The boat will go a bit faster and use less fuel under power without ballast, but the admiral likes the boat ballasted and stiffer than without.

I hate reaching the valve while underway. Maybe someone invented a crutch that can be used to open/close it without going on the transom or bending it by accident?

You asked?

https://macgregorsailors.com/mods/index ... item&id=62

https://macgregorsailors.com/mods/index ... tem&id=399

https://macgregorsailors.com/mods/index ... tem&id=429

Really fancy
https://macgregorsailors.com/mods/index ... tem&id=654

https://macgregorsailors.com/mods/index ... tern=valve


Yea, this site has 20 years of experience to draw from. If you can think it, it's likely someone has tried it. And then someone has improved on that.
The Mods section is a great resource, as well as the search button.

[NiceAft]

I use my boat hook to open and close the transom valve. No awkwardly stretching over the stern. That’s why I keep it vertically just inside the cabin, alongside the companion way steps, easy to grab and put away.