Sailing Upright

[leefrankpierce]

I sail an in-land lake with lots of fingers/cliffs/houses resulting in frequent wind direction changes and gusts where it "feels" like it will go from 4mph to 15 in a second, often dropping to nothing in the next second.
Given the admittedly tender nature of our boats the Admirals concern is not the total amount of heel, but the speed at which it will go from nothing to heavy over, and then back.
I am almost always reefed and do not have all my jib out (Roller Furler) but find the boat moves fine for my use.
Admitting my sails are probably blown out (main sail might be orig, my Jib has a bunch of wear), I am considering new sails.
I am wondering if any one has tried a less than 100% jib for their primary foresail?
Seems to me I could get better sail shape if I ran a smaller jib without relying on the Furler.
How much smaller would be the secondary question.

Lee Pierce

[wyo george]

I live and sail in Wyoming and as anyone who has ever been here knows, it’s windy and rarely steady. Gusts are just a part of life and I’ve been contemplating getting a “storm jib” and a main with extra reef points just for keeping my M25 intact with the gusty, variable winds. I’m ok giving up a little speed as I’m never in a hurry and the largest lake I sail is only 12 miles long so it’s not like I’m crossing oceans and trying to shave days off my passage.

[Stickinthemud57]

I would agree that you would be better off flying a 60 to 80% jib rather than reefing using the roller furler.

I suppose another option would be to not fly a jib at all and just use the mainsail. That way you could dump wind on short notice. Granted, the boat would not point as well, but easing one sail happens more quickly than with two.

[leefrankpierce]

I would agree that you would be better off flying a 60 to 80% jib rather than reefing using the roller furler.

I suppose another option would be to not fly a jib at all and just use the mainsail. That way you could dump wind on short notice. Granted, the boat would not point as well, but easing one sail happens more quickly than with two.

I often sail with just the jib for that reason, and because it is much easier to deploy or shorten/put away the roller jib.
Only down side with jib only is the weather helm turns you away from the wind so you catch more wind if you loose steerage.

[Interim]

I think gusts and shifts are part of inland lake life. I agree that the problem isn't heeling; the problem is the constant change. That is what makes crew and passengers uncomfortable. We can sail along at 15-17 degrees of heel, and everyone is happy as long as it stays there.

I don't know that in a puff you're going to get good laminar flow, regardless of sail shape. Boat, wind, and sail will not be in tune, and as soon as they are it drops off and you're sitting there out of tune again. When we have sea-room we just pinch up in a puff, but try to capture as much of the power as we can. When we are pinned on a lee-shore or boat traffic, we dump the main.

I have learned, however, that yelling "yee ha" is more comforting than yelling "oh no!"

--interim

[NiceAft]

I have learned, however, that yelling "yee ha" is more comforting than yelling "oh no!"

Good Advise

Captains must always keep their cool.

[Be Free]

Six days Seven Nights:
(Anne Heche): Ever since we've been here you've been so confident.

(Harrison Ford): Well I'm the captain. That's my job. It's no good for me to go waving my arms in the air and screaming "Oh s***, we're gonna die!" That doesn't invoke much confidence, does it?

[Jimmyt]

Great quotes. Spot on...
I took my neighbors out for a day sail right after I got my boat. My good friend, the husband, is a great athlete, fearless bicyclist, and a can-do DIY'er. But, he was hanging on for dear life the first time we passed 20 degrees. His wife, in contrast, was cool, calm, and collected. I asked her why she wasn't panicking like my buddy (her husband). She said, "it's your boat and you aren't worried, so I figure everything is fine".

Footnote: He has been sailing enough now to be comfortable at heel.

[dlandersson]

That's a great scene

Six days Seven Nights:
(Anne Heche): Ever since we've been here you've been so confident.

(Harrison Ford): Well I'm the captain. That's my job. It's no good for me to go waving my arms in the air and screaming "Oh s***, we're gonna die!" That doesn't invoke much confidence, does it?

[Ixneigh]

Hi. I sail my M with a smaller jib frequently. I do not have roller furling. I have several smaller jibs including a heavy air jib to be used with double reefed main. Maximum sailing performance esp. in substandard conditions is important to me. Most people do not want to swap out the roller genny because it means going on the fordeck to change sails. But you won’t get good performance with a deeply rolled up sail. I’ve certainly sailed with just the main too. In flat water, the boat sails pretty well with just a double reefed main in really windy conditions. I’m usually in shallow water so don’t have to deal with heavy chop.

Ix

[LakeMac26C]

I have found that the worst problem with gusty, shifty winds is lack of hull speed. Slowing in a lull makes the next gust hit even harder. I also sail on a lake and I find that I use the tiller to maintain hull speed rather than course. This keeps the heeling to a more consistant rate i.e. head upwind in a gust to pinch and head more on a beam during a lull.

I've also thought that keeping the engine on and in forward at a low speed might help keep the hull speed even and thus heel. With sails up. Any thoughts from the group?

[NiceAft]

I was a dinghy sailor for years before the Mac. Dinghy sailors learn quickly the benefit of keeping the Main Sheet in your hand. It works equally well with my M. On my M, the Main Sheet is draped over the pedestal for quick and easy access. When a gust comes, you can use quickly release the Main and bring it back to regain any lost speed.

Compared to the dinghy, the Mac is stable as an ocean liner. The dingy can turtle in an instant.

[OverEasy]

Get on a swim suit and a PFD then go sail a SunFish in a nice windy day on a long lake where you can tack back and forth to your hearts content. Any heeling in a Mac with seem like a gentle walk in the park in comparison figuratively.

Enjoy the ride!

[NiceAft]

Over easy,

I tried sending an e-mail, but I received an error message saying you can’t receive any. I didn’t want to hijack the thread.

The Phantom was designed by a world class dinghy sailor who worked for AMF; they built the Sunfish at that time. He left AMF and built the Phantom with improvements over the existing Sunfish model: mid 70’s. I bought mine in1979 after spending an hour or two examining them both at the NYC Boat Show. I went there to purchase a Sunfish.




I know all to well how easy it is to get flipped. Those reflex experiences prepared me quite well in knowing when to release the main on my M. I keep the MainSheet accessible.

[Be Free]

I was a dinghy sailor for years before the Mac. Dinghy sailors learn quickly the benefit of keeping the Main Sheet in your hand. It works equally well with my M. On my M, the Main Sheet is draped over the pedestal for quick and easy access. When a gust comes, you can use quickly release the Main and bring it back to regain any lost speed.

Compared to the dinghy, the Mac is stable as an ocean liner. The dingy can turtle in an instant.

My journey went quickly from dinghy to beach cat. One hand on the tiller and one on the main sheet. I still keep the Mac main sheet in hand more than absolutely required. Old habits die slowly.

I loved (and still sometimes miss) the power and speed of the catamaran. With almost the same sail area as an but only weighing 300 pounds it would fly! Keeping a Mac on its feet is a walk in the park after holding a cat with one hull just above the water for miles at a time. If memory serves, an "X" has a PHRF rating around 260; my Prindle was 60. For those unfamiliar with PHRF that means that the Prindle would be expected to pull ahead of the "X" 200 seconds every mile.

Of course, the Mac does have its advantages. Not long after getting it one of my sons was literally sailing circles around me when we had both boats out at the same time. He pulled up next to me and was kidding me about switching from such a fast boat to the one I was still learning how to not embarrass myself on. The wind was light so I just ducked into the cabin for a minute. When I came out he asked my why I'd left. I told him that I used the head and got a bottle of water.

It might be slow, but my is way more comfortable!