Sailing Upright

[NiceAft]

Amen brother

[Herschel]

I sail exclusively on an inland lake in Florida. Our winds are mostly variable even when in the nice range for comfortable sailing. I am referring to the 8-12 knot range. But the gusts can be fairly strong if a front is moving in, or a thunderstorm is brewing. If it's a thunderstorm, I'll reef and head back to the barn. But if it is a strong wind day or the gusts are a problem, I often just motor upwind and tack back down wind on broad reaches. I learned to go down wind like that sailing Hobies. To the purest sailor that is a kind of heresy, perhaps, but I find it useful. It can make a borderline or difficult wind day much more manageable. There is nothing in the "rules" that with a 50+ hp engine we have to sail upwind every time we go sailing! That is my version of "thinking outside the sail bag"

[NiceAft]

(1st) You don't own a pure sailboat, so use it to it's potential.
(2nd) You're beyond the age of needing someones permission. "Go where you wanna go; do what you wanna do" (Mamas & Papas).

Jimmy, if you are reading this, don't look. YBYR

[leefrankpierce]

I am sure someone has tried sandbags in the bilge to the left and right of the water tank. One under the sink, the other under the table.
Wonder what the results are?
On 1 hand I can see this lowering the center of gravity and putting the boat a little lower, and having more weight lifted on the windward side.
On the other I can see loss of buoyancy on the side that needs lift.
Not much space to add weight any where else unless someone wanted to bolt a keel under the boat, or try the weighted swing board (or whatever we call it.)

[OverEasy]

I recall reading somewhere or other of a means to adjust the center of gravity on an old airplane that had a cable system to move the battery fore/aft. … if the plane was tail heavy one could crank the battery forward or vice-versa.

Instead of sandbagging some enterprising individual could apply the same technique to a sailboat but make the adjustment to Port/Starboard. Dual batteries would give it even more effect. With the addition of a digital inclinometer sensor and some electronics one could automate the process so the system would switch from on side to the other when changing tacks…

Jus a thought…..

[Herschel]

I am sure someone has tried sandbags in the bilge to the left and right of the water tank. One under the sink, the other under the table.
Wonder what the results are?
On 1 hand I can see this lowering the center of gravity and putting the boat a little lower, and having more weight lifted on the windward side.
On the other I can see loss of buoyancy on the side that needs lift.
Not much space to add weight anywhere else unless someone wanted to bolt a keel under the boat or try the weighted swing board (or whatever we call it.)

I did ponder the use of the 40lb bags of salt used for saltwater pools (a salt generator in supply lines breaks down the salt to provide chlorine for the pool). They come in totally sealed heavy plastic bags with handles.
https://www.lowes.com/pl/Pool-salt-Pool ... 2750559534

[Stickinthemud57]

I hate to be the naysayer here, but 80 lbs. amounts to about 6% of the 1400 lbs of water ballast of the X. I doubt it would make a noticeable difference.

Short of going to a different boat, there's precious little one can do about the "tippiness" of any trailerable, ballasted or unballasted sailboat, when compared to one with a weighted keel and a broader beam.

Among the things one can do is to analyze and adjust sail trim. A kind old sailboat racing veteran is coaching me on these things. Part of this involves adjusting sail twist to move power more to the lower part of the sail when less power is desired to reduce weather helm (one source of tippiness).

Here is a nice, succinct article on the subject for the mainsail:
https://www.northsails.com/sailing/en/2 ... -gladstone

In short, one can increase twist in the mainsail by slacking the mainsheet. This results in less downward pressure on the boom, allowing the top of the sail to twist more to beam, thus spilling wind from that portion.

Twist in the foresail is managed by fairlead (sheet pulley) positions, that is, if you have your pulleys on a track that allows for repositioning further aft or forward. Moving them further forward results in more downward pressure on the sail clew, flattening the sail. Moving them aft allows for more twist, again dumping wind from the top of the sail.

As for weight distribution, for most cargo the best one can do is not exacerbate the problem by storing heavy items any higher than necessary.

Depending on the Admiral's tolerance level, one could demonstrate the self-righting features of the boat. In my case, suggesting that we might deliberately set about trying to capsize the boat would result in another solo sailing excursion for me.

[Be Free]

The idea of moveable ballast is interesting but I don't think the battery is a good item to be moving around. I think the only practical moveable ballast on our boats (other than crew) would be additional tanks that could be used move water from one side to the other. Personally I think it is overkill but it could be done and it could be even be automated but I would not do it.

I want the boat to be knocked down if the wind is strong enough and I've found "rail meat" to be sufficient to maintain a reasonable angle of heel in any wind where I had any business trying to sail. I'm not going to try to do the math (I'll leave that as an exercise for the student) but every pound that is used to keep the boat upright is going to be felt by the rigging while it is actually resisting the heeling motion. At some point it may exceed the ability of your rigging to hold your mast up.

I have been knocked down in my "X" before. It's scary but nothing was damaged (other than me). The boat popped right back up as soon as the micro-burst ended. It did make for a very interesting track on my chart plotter . If I'd had enough moveable ballast to resist even a fraction of that wind I have no doubt something would have broken.

[NiceAft]

Interesting point.

[Herschel]

I hate to be the naysayer here, but 80 lbs. amounts to about 6% of the 1400 lbs of water ballast of the X. I doubt it would make a noticeable difference.

Short of going to a different boat, there's precious little one can do about the "tippiness" of any trailerable, ballasted or unballasted sailboat, when compared to one with a weighted keel and a broader beam.

Among the things one can do is to analyze and adjust sail trim. A kind old sailboat racing veteran is coaching me on these things. Part of this involves adjusting sail twist to move power more to the lower part of the sail when less power is desired to reduce weather helm (one source of tippiness).

Here is a nice, succinct article on the subject for the mainsail:
https://www.northsails.com/sailing/en/2 ... -gladstone

In short, one can increase twist in the mainsail by slacking the mainsheet. This results in less downward pressure on the boom, allowing the top of the sail to twist more to beam, thus spilling wind from that portion.

Twist in the foresail is managed by fairlead (sheet pulley) positions, that is, if you have your pulleys on a track that allows for repositioning further aft or forward. Moving them further forward results in more downward pressure on the sail clew, flattening the sail. Moving them aft allows for more twist, again dumping wind from the top of the sail.

As for weight distribution, for most cargo the best one can do is not exacerbate the problem by storing heavy items any higher than necessary.

Depending on the Admiral's tolerance level, one could demonstrate the self-righting features of the boat. In my case, suggesting that we might deliberately set about trying to capsize the boat would result in another solo sailing excursion for me.

From a true sailing perspective, this is clearly great review information. Having completely removed my mainsail for non-nautical reasons (bats), it is easy to start thinking of my X as a "sailing pontoon boat", which at 78 isn't altogether a negative thing. Still, you resurrect the true sailor in me. The guy that raced in the 1964 Newport-Bermuda race! Thanks.

[leefrankpierce]

I hate to be the naysayer here, but 80 lbs. amounts to about 6% of the 1400 lbs of water ballast of the X. I doubt it would make a noticeable difference.

Short of going to a different boat, there's precious little one can do about the "tippiness" of any trailerable, ballasted or unballasted sailboat, when compared to one with a weighted keel and a broader beam.

Among the things one can do is to analyze and adjust sail trim. A kind old sailboat racing veteran is coaching me on these things. Part of this involves adjusting sail twist to move power more to the lower part of the sail when less power is desired to reduce weather helm (one source of tippiness).

Here is a nice, succinct article on the subject for the mainsail:
https://www.northsails.com/sailing/en/2 ... -gladstone

In short, one can increase twist in the mainsail by slacking the mainsheet. This results in less downward pressure on the boom, allowing the top of the sail to twist more to beam, thus spilling wind from that portion.

Twist in the foresail is managed by fairlead (sheet pulley) positions, that is, if you have your pulleys on a track that allows for repositioning further aft or forward. Moving them further forward results in more downward pressure on the sail clew, flattening the sail. Moving them aft allows for more twist, again dumping wind from the top of the sail.

As for weight distribution, for most cargo the best one can do is not exacerbate the problem by storing heavy items any higher than necessary.

Depending on the Admiral's tolerance level, one could demonstrate the self-righting features of the boat. In my case, suggesting that we might deliberately set about trying to capsize the boat would result in another solo sailing excursion for me.

NaySayer?
BenchSailing here so all comments are appreciated.
This is why and were we ask the questions, to get peoples opinions and/or experiences so keep commenting.
We all understand the pros and cons of our boat so the current topic is reasonable mitigation of them.
Yes most Admirals might be happier with a traditional keelboat during sailing, but the speed of my 120hp outboard (20+mph after ballast drops) gives us safely to dock for sudden weather changes (Sure I trust weatherbug), sailing when there is not enough wind for the keelboats to even move, the biggest cabin for a 26 footer keeps us in our X.

I am wondering about the numbers.
80lbs = about 2 sacks of sand, so I figure that much on each side, so might 160lbs total make a difference?
120lbs = about 3 sacks on each side, for 240 lbs.
How much might make a difference and is the location we are talking about even useful?

Also sounds like a positive vote for smaller sails.

[NiceAft]

Do I understand correctly that you have a 120HP on your

[leefrankpierce]

Do I understand correctly that you have a 120HP on your

An old V4, 2-stroke, carbureted, non-computer, mix your own gas, works every time 120 HP Evinrude/Johnson.
It is kinda flat for a 120, so looks like it belongs there.
The only downside I have is when sailing, If I leave the steering connected, it will tend to spin the wheel off center.
The honda 50 was balanced so was neutral.
So, if I want to let go of the wheel, I disconnect the steering down at the motor.

[Stickinthemud57]

@leefrank:

It's good that the Admiral understands the big plus of having the ability to drop sail and hook a** when things get dicey.

It reminds me of one of our little camping trips on our local lake. I knew there was the chance of rain the following morning, but it blew in early in the form of thundershowers. Motoring back to the marina at 7 knots was rather unnerving, knowing although the lightning activity was many miles away and moving perpendicular to our return path, that that was no guarantee that lightning would not strike where we were. I was very relieved when we got back to the marina and off the boat.

[NiceAft]

Leefrankpierce,

The reason I ask is that with that much horse power, I would think you would achieve 20MPH with a full ballast.

With my , I can do almost 19MPH with an empty ballast and a lightly loaded boat. With a full ballast, I can do about fourteen, and I have a 2003 Honda 50HP four stroke.