Considering an upgrade from 26S to 26M...

[ralphe]

I have a chance to buy a 26M locally, potentially for a good price, so am contemplating the upgrade from my 26S.
Haven't sailed the S as much as I'd like but generally happy with it.
The main (only?) benefit of the M would be the option to go faster under power.
It would be a more expensive boat, a hassle to sell the old one etc.
But if I'm going to upgrade, maybe better now to put more effort into fine-tuning a boat I'll own for ages.

Am I right in these assumptions about when I can go faster?
- Wind drops at the end of a day's sailing, motor home in 1/3 the time?
Can I empty the ballast underway? With the mast up?
Do I need the ballast empty to go fast / plane properly? (Read about it being a hassle when half-planing)
- Storm blows in, run for home?
Is fast motoring an option in conditions I don't want to sail in? With the mast up / ballast full (read it's not good to empty it in rough seas)?
- I want to go against the current?

On the flip side, what am I giving up with the S?
Will I miss the tiller (never sailed anything with a wheel)?
Is the S a significantly better sailer? (I get that neither are perfect, but read the X/M flat bottom is a factor).

Thanks for any other input on factors I've not thought of!

[Stickinthemud57]

I have only sailed the S, so my observations about the M are based mostly on what I have read here.

I'm pretty sure that the ballast is supposed to be full whether sailing or motoring, though I seem to recall a few posts where the owners said they have motored without the ballast full. Actual owners will chime in, I am sure.

There appears to be a significant difference between the 26S 26M when it comes to performance. 6 knots is generally the upper end of sailing speed with the M's and 6.5 (and maybe a tad more) for the S and D's in most conditions.

Yes, I'm sure the X and M's can do better that 6 knots on a beam reach in 25 mph winds. Not what I mean by "most conditions".

The specs show the hull speed of the M as 6.43 knots and the S 6.5 knots, but it appears to be the consensus that the M does not perform on the same level as the S.

The M is much heavier empty than the S, so a vehicle with a 3500-lb capacity is going to be more challenged, especially when motor weight, fuel tanks, gear, etc. are factored in.

My wife would prefer an M, since with nearly 6 feet of headroom she would not have to stoop down as is true in the S.

I have sailed boats with wheels and really prefer a tiller for the feedback. The nice thing about a wheel is that it doesn't have the problem of needing to relocate passengers due to the swing of the tiller. Overcoming the left is right and right is left habit can be tricky. I find that if I grip the wheel at some point below the hub I can approximate that.

I sail mostly on a small lake with three marinas, so I can (and have) ducked into them on occasion when a pop-up thunderstorm blew through. That said, it would be easier to beat a squall back to the marina in an M. Rough seas are bad news either way. There was a recent story about an M that turned over resulting in several deaths, possibly for lack of water in the ballast(?).

What you will miss:
Performance
Feedback from the tiller
Ease of trailering unless you have a beefy vehicle

What you will like:
Being able to stand up in the cabin (unless you are taller than 5.92 feet.
Being able to get back to the marina faster when conditions warrant.

[Jimmyt]

Stickinthemud57 covered it pretty well.

I would not, necessarily, call it an upgrade unless you’ve got additional context.

Some of what you’re asking depends on what size outboard you have on it.

I’ve got an Etec 60 hp. It will do about 17 mph with ballast and 4 reasonably sized adults, and almost 20 mph without ballast. I don’t run it long that way, because I’m not a fan of WOT operation. But, I could if I needed to. And yes, getting back to the club, or ramp, when the wind dies is much quicker at 3x speed.

The M has a ton more windage - the price you pay for the headroom. The S and D are more of a sailing design than a floating Winnebago. Don’t get me wrong, I love sailing my M. I’ve seen over 6.5 knots on several occasions. But, I don’t think I could beat an S or D head to head. I’ve got a 150 Genoa on a furler and a furling main, so pointing isn’t what I do best. Reaching and running is fine.

Yes, you can empty the ballast underway. Unless you have an extension handle on your ballast valve, it can be risky. Someone has to raise the helm seat and lean out over the transom to open and close the valve. I do it sometimes, but it could go sideways if you aren’t careful.

I wouldn’t consider it an upgrade unless you need the cabin headroom, want a hybrid power-sailer, or are after a later model that’s less of a project. They are just different boats. If your primary usage is day sailing, cockpit space might be more important than cabin. Don’t kid yourself about wheel steering. That pedestal and wheel eat up a chunk of real estate.

You can motor with the mast up and the ballast out safely, if you follow the recommendations in the manual. Light loading, nobody on deck, etc. if it’s rough weather, I’d put the ballast in, though. You cannot sail safely without the ballast.

If you’re going to be camping a lot, the M would give you a bit more space in the cabin. If you’re 6’2” like me, standing headroom isn’t available much.

[NiceAft]

Jimmy’s post is spot on.

As a 20 year owner of an , I just love that boat. The challenge of opening and closing the ballast valve I overcame by using my boat pole. I use it to both pull up on the handle and pushing down on it. I don’t need to raise the captain’s seat.

My current tow beast and my previous one both have/had transmission coolers and tow ratings of 4,000 pounds. I have never had a problem towing NiceAft.

Last summer we did seventeen days crisscrossing the Chesapeake. We had some forty mile legs, some legs slightly less. I motored at 8 to 9 knots so as to get from point A to point B. Sailing would have been far too slow. The water was choppy with good size swells. The M was perfect for the trip.

At 5’7”, I have no problem with headroom below deck.

[Tsatzsue]

I went from a 1977 V25 to an M. It was from a club member and a deal I couldn't refuse. I thought I would have trouble selling my 25 but I got all the money. I invested in new steering from BWY and installed a lot of upgrades given to me with the boat. I does not sail like the V at all. I do miss that. However the safety, comfort and versatility are more than worth it. My wife and I can sleep together under the cockpit. Queen size bed. Having fresh water and all the electronics are trick. Even shore power. I love it. Sometime motoring is fun too. We soil to Province Town from the canal and motor most of the way on almost no gas. Less that with my 9.9 Johnson on the V. Having 24 gallons of fuel is the bomb. Anchoring in a foot of water is cool too. The boat turns heads everywhere it goes. It does take some getting used to for handling but once you get the feel it isn't that bad. I always keep the ballast in. NO self righting with out it. I only sail in the ocean and like the added security of this boat. I did however push that 25 to its absolute limit and loved every minute of it. Just do it!!

[dlandersson]

Ditto on the X

The challenge of opening and closing the ballast valve I overcame by using my boat pole. I use it to both pull up on the handle and pushing down on it. I don’t need to raise the captain’s seat.

[ralphe]

Thanks for your comments everyone!

Good to confirm how / when to use the ballast. Seems like ballast full is generally the answer, can still go plenty quicker than the S with it full.

Good points about headroom / comfort, as the aim is to use it for camping fairly often.

Sounds like the difference in sailing performance is noticeable but not vast, and I could enjoy the flexibility of the hybrid power-sailer.

Trailering is a good point, my vehicle is rated to 3500lbs so the M might be marginal on that.

Lots to consider, the pros and cons do seem to be pretty finally balanced.

[Tsunami]

One additional point that has not been mentioned is the dagger board.
I have an X and have really come to appreciate the fact it will swing up on it's own when getting into the shallows.
Whether that can be an issue depends on where you sail but if you consider upgrading you might as well take the plunge and go straight to the X

[Jimmyt]

One additional point that has not been mentioned is the dagger board.
I have an X and have really come to appreciate the fact it will swing up on it's own when getting into the shallows.
Whether that can be an issue depends on where you sail but if you consider upgrading you might as well take the plunge and go straight to the X

Good point. Also, the head compartment in the X makes more sense to some (me included).

[Ixneigh]

Hi. I’ve owned my M for fourteen years. I’m a sailor but the boat is an expedition boat first. Although I have not ranged as far afield as I thought I might when I got her.
For long trips when you will spend a lot of time at anchor, the interior volume of the M is very welcome. The third day of bad weather stuck below is when an appreciate it the most. It also has a much better motion at anchor in terms of roll that my flatter bottom V22.2 did. She does range around the anchor in large arcs due to windage. The motoring is a mixed bag. The boat is extremely wet in any but glassy conditions on plane. I would NEVER run mine like that in chop unless someone was dying. I do 5 knots or so in poor conditions (3ft plus chop/waves windy ) and she rides like a duck, high and dry. She’s also got the power to buck through the wind and or current. I’ve towed other vessels with mine. And makes a good tow boat with caution. Docking is hundred by the additional windage. Also a plus is the whole motorboat style helm and controls. No leaning off the hack pull starting the engine. After all this, I rarely put the boat on plane but I like the reserve power. That said, I may consider a 20 hp in the future for weight savings.
Now for sailing. The boats a dog. Unless you relearn to sail from either a keelboat or a sailors sailboat. Since I wanted “as much room on a shallow draft boat no larger than 26 ft”
I was stuck with the X/M and I set out undogify mine. They come the factory poorly equipped. The sails are practice sails. There are no reef points. The main has a rope luff. The roller furling has poor shape unless it’s fully rolled out. The lack of a backstay makes proper head stay tension nearly impossible. The boat does not carry her way, and the windage makes tacking a little challenging. The rudders are too small. They stall easily unless you let the boat get up to speed. The steering system is very marginal and more complex than a simple off the transom rudder. It has a lot of components. The rotating mast helps performance but adds complexity. I rebuilt the entire bearing system on mine and now possess the largest balls of anyone on this board, quite ironically. It also allows the mast to move when the boat rolls, unless secured.
Her manners in a seaway were a mixed bag. The most annoying was that she was prone to rounding up when running, more or less frequently depending on which sails you had up. I tried them all (I use Hank on jibs) upgrading to rudder craft rudders helped by did not cure it for me. It’s actually a safety feature. (I think) on the plus side, the boat, under sail is the unbelievably “dry” nary a drop on me all afternoon bombing about in Hawks Channel. Not like my old 23 ft heavy keelboat. Not at all. Another feature I really like is how helpful she is when dealing with sail changes or getting off the anchor. My 23 footer fought me every step of the way. She’s round up and try to come about, or fall off. Didn’t matter how you secured the helm. My v22 w was a little better. But the M is an absolute doll. She will allow you to hoist the main with little difficulty, and then happily wait, head up but not trying to tack, while you out the jib up. Yiu can adjust her mannerism with the dagger board. I drop it all the way to put sails up. A simple bungee or an easy to make helm brake greatly helps. Once you learn the boats quirks, add a few reef points, and either a top shelf furler or hank on jibs (I have 4 different sizes) the better rudders and understand that you have given up a little sailing performance for a lot more room, I feel the boat sails pretty good.

Good luck and choose wisely!


Etc.
I made some extra demands of my boat which most others do not need. She only superficially resembles a factory M in sailing character now. To Witt: added running back stays for headsail tension and off the wind mast support. Added two skeg fins on the after part of the hull to aid in shallow water sailing and running. Added a five inch deep 7 ft long stub keel for sailing without the board in the shallows, and also for running in strong conditions when using the board may encourage rounding up or broaching. Re-bushing the rudder pivots for added strength. I really needed the boat more set up for running. Hardly anyone sails upwind these days (motor) so when the winds are from astern I want to be able to take advantage. While the stock boat did go down wind of course, I never felt like she was optimized, and she felt pretty skeevy at times. Once when approaching a channel
I lost control and had an uncontrolled round up, couldn’t get her pointed down wind again without taking sail down, all the while drifting towards some embarrassing mudflats. I had too much sail up of course. My fault really. Gave me something to think about though.

Ix

[ralphe]

Thanks all for the comments. Took the plunge

[NiceAft]

Thanks all for the comments. Took the plunge

Congratulations

Now go out and enjoy a truly wonderful sailboat; modify it to your hearts content. The mods section on this site can give you lots of ideas. One last thing, post photos.