Another reason to love Macgregor - NOT

[Ralf]

Well, that's it for me.
Thought hard about it and read everything I could find.
I am out of the market for a 26M for this year.
Just a few to many things that don't add up.
I still will keep reading so - maybe McGregor does stand up to their promises some day - right now they certainly seem to not do so.
Not sure if any boat can make up for the agony that kind of business posture can cause one if one should be the unlucky one that receives the one boat with a lot of issues (and wether that's a rare occurence or not is irrelevant - if I want to go gambling I do not need to do so by buying a new boat).

I also just have to find out how Mark's 26X ends up working out with the 115 Suzi. Maybe I'll check out the used 26X market at the end of the season (for price reasons and to have a winter to work on her - no interest / time for projects in spring / summer), but I won't look into the M's until McGregor delivers what they promise.

Really appreciate all your guys contributions to the forum & Heath's for running it. Makes me feel somewhat sad for the outcome / my decision, but, if it doesn't feel right it's better to walk away...

Ralf

Sorry, Roger may be a Hero for providing a boat that really serves a need in the market at a very good price point (and he does), but not delivering on promises, not even the written ones, makes McGregor a not trustworthy business in my opinion. McGregor needs some direct competition in the segment it created (US competition, not just an expensive import from Europe (Ogden / Mast 28).

[Ralf]

That smily face in my last post was meant to be a ")"
No idea how it became a smiley face (ignorant operator...)

[Chip Hindes]

I think Duane nailed it... MacGregor bought a bunch of masts, and
forgot to specify the wire channel be included.

Judging from the way everything else on the Mac is done, I would be pretty surprised if the masts are anything more than bare, undrilled extrusions when they arrive at the factory. They may not even be cut to length. I'll bet all the cutting, drilling, wiring, attachments and (in this case) foaming is done at the Mac factory. I'm sure I remember pictures on the X video of them drilling the boom an/or the mast, even bragging about the jigs they use to make sure everything is perfect.

That doesn't mean they didn't make the same mistake at the factory, nor
that they don't have a lot of them on the shelf without the wire race.

I think it's more likely the statement is a classic CYA. The website says
the specs are subject to change without notice, so they're at least
theoretically covered there; but if they were to admit they made a mistake in not including the wire race, there'd be a whole lot of pi$$ off owners asking for new masts.

What I really can't believe is that they have the unmitigated gall to leave
the wire race claim on the website. Exactly how much time and effort does it take to change the spec? Their refusal to do so makes it appear that they're leaving it wrong with specific intent to mislead. There's
marketing hooraw and there are lies. This is a lie.

Which leads me to wonder: what percentage of the other claims on the
website are pure fiction? 10%? 50%? all of them?

[Phil Marriott]

Well, you sure have me thinking that I might not buy one of these boats. I'm really disappointed - I was under the impression that they were reasonable value for money, a good compromise between a yacht and a speedboat, and that although I might be foolish to sail to Hawaii and back in one they would do for my family's coastal cruising needs.

I'd like to think that the dealer will be able to assist with the modification required to the mast, and that will be the end of the problem for the individual.

I'd also hope that the MacGregor Sailors community establishes a feedback arrangement for Roger MacGregor and his team, that highlights a known issue, and what a potential resolution might be for it. The wonderful ideas around portholes, swim steps, galley modifications, and others, all look like they will benefit the wider MacGregor community in the long run. If we can help Mr. MacGregor improve his yacht, then surely resale value will hold. Having read your posts to date, I'm now most disillusioned and would rather go and buy a Hunter!!!

And maybe as you are highlighting the issue, you could point out the statement on the website, and explain why it is causing angst and confusion.

Off soap box.
cheers
Phil.

[Paul S]

Well, you sure have me thinking that I might not buy one of these boats. I'm really disappointed - I was under the impression that they were reasonable value for money, a good compromise between a yacht and a speedboat, and that although I might be foolish to sail to Hawaii and back in one they would do for my family's coastal cruising needs.

I'd like to think that the dealer will be able to assist with the modification required to the mast, and that will be the end of the problem for the individual.

I'd also hope that the MacGregor Sailors community establishes a feedback arrangement for Roger MacGregor and his team, that highlights a known issue, and what a potential resolution might be for it. The wonderful ideas around portholes, swim steps, galley modifications, and others, all look like they will benefit the wider MacGregor community in the long run. If we can help Mr. MacGregor improve his yacht, then surely resale value will hold. Having read your posts to date, I'm now most disillusioned and would rather go and buy a Hunter!!!

And maybe as you are highlighting the issue, you could point out the statement on the website, and explain why it is causing angst and confusion.

Off soap box.
cheers
Phil.

I am not trying to cause trouble and turn people off of Macs. But just make sure you have your ducks in a row when you order it. Just make sure you have in your sales contract the fact the dealer will put a channel in the mast. Make sure your dealer knows in no uncertain terms what you expect - accessories installed and not in boxes, no scratches/chips/swirlmarks/wax residue on hull, etc.

I was considering the Hunter route..but that would cost a boatload more (about double), plus there would be no way my truck could pull a monster like that. I also suspect there would be similar issues with quality control.

As far as I can tell, there is no feedback system with the factory. Sure you can call..I dare ya...They are useless as t!ts on a bull. They really don't care. Every question of mine was answered with 'talk with your dealer'. Just be sure you don't call at happy hour.

Apparently my standards are too high and I expect too much, judging from the majority of feedback I have received here.


Paul

[mike]

Personally, none of the troubles Paul S is having would stop me from buying a 26M if I were in the market for one. Most of the stuff seems to be dealer related, and I haven't heard any other M owners complain of similar experiences... so, this must be an isolated case.

Of course, the mast thing really bugs me... but that alone wouldn't stop me from buying one.

--Mike

[Mark Prouty]

I will forward this to roger. Next shipment of masts install 2 wires to mast steaming light and place 3 extra wires to top of mast before spraying foam into mast. Add $5.00 and 3 pounds to cost of boat.

Sinbad,
You got me very curious. I don't mean to be rude but you seem to know Roger and have inside information. I was wondering how.

For the sake of new 26M owners, I hope that Roger will read this thread and the feedback will help him make a decision to correct the mast problem.

In case Sinbad only visits the site occasionally, does anyone know his connection to MacGregor?

Thanks,
Mark

[Paul S]

Personally, none of the troubles Paul S is having would stop me from buying a 26M if I were in the market for one. Most of the stuff seems to be dealer related, and I haven't heard any other M owners complain of similar experiences... so, this must be an isolated case.

Of course, the mast thing really bugs me... but that alone wouldn't stop me from buying one.

--Mike

Like I have said many times..they are not show stopper issues....but combined they just p!ssed me off. Especially since I went out of my way to let him know what I expected. Never owned a sailboat before. I just expected it to be ready to sail. I wasn't aware it was just a boat with boxes-o-parts. The mast thing is huge..since I reminded him more than a dozen times, and it still wasn't done.

But you would be p!ssed to if you got a dull looking blue boat. It is one of those things you have to see in person. It looks like a 5 year boat that was buffed with a belt sander. One friend actually thought I bought a used boat. It is that bad.

My intent is not to discourage purchases...before we took delivery, all my posts were 100% postitive. But now reality sets in. I accept the fact that Macgregors are finished to a lower standard of quality than I would expect and that dealer and factory support are fair at best. I don't have to like it, but I do reluctanly accept it.

The mast situation is not an isolated case. All of the M's, as far as I know, have no way of running wires to the top of the mast through the foam. Yes, the prep is a dealer issue. The sh!tty gelcoat repair was done at the factory, as well as the sh!tty buffing job (according to dealer). But all the same, the dealer should have dealt with the issues before making delivery.

Paul

[Paul S]

I will forward this to roger. Next shipment of masts install 2 wires to mast steaming light and place 3 extra wires to top of mast before spraying foam into mast. Add $5.00 and 3 pounds to cost of boat.

Sinbad,
You got me very curious. I don't mean to be rude but you seem to know Roger and have inside information. I was wondering how.

For the sake of new 26M owners, I hope that Roger will read this thread and the feedback will help him make a decision to correct the mast problem.

In case Sinbad only visits the site occasionally, does anyone know his connection to MacGregor?

Thanks,
Mark

You know..this is hot Roger is going to fix the problem - he will update the website - problem fixed ! True Magregor style! Don't fix the problem...fix the symptom!

Paul

[Frank C]

I will forward this to roger. Next shipment of masts install 2 wires to mast steaming light and place 3 extra wires to top of mast before spraying foam into mast. Add $5.00 and 3 pounds to cost of boat. I ran 2 #14 to top for anchor light and I use it while sailing to illuminmate my wind indicatior, I wish i had ran a 3rd wire to the top and a lower watt bulb for the wind indicator light, but so far I have not drained my battery low enough that I could not start my motor if needed.

Great suggestion, Sinbad! ... and every new owner could simply use Roger's installed wire as a leader, and drag a quality replacement wire into the same place.

The factory has obviously decided that they need to use the much-lighter sealed air chambers as flotation, rather than a fully foamed mast. Your embedded wire would only slightly (and insignificantly) impair their solution.

[Paul S]

I will forward this to roger. Next shipment of masts install 2 wires to mast steaming light and place 3 extra wires to top of mast before spraying foam into mast. Add $5.00 and 3 pounds to cost of boat. I ran 2 #14 to top for anchor light and I use it while sailing to illuminmate my wind indicatior, I wish i had ran a 3rd wire to the top and a lower watt bulb for the wind indicator light, but so far I have not drained my battery low enough that I could not start my motor if needed.

Great suggestion, Sinbad! ... and every new owner could simply use Roger's installed wire as a leader, and drag a quality replacement wire into the same place.

The factory has obviously decided that they need to use the much-lighter sealed air chambers as flotation, rather than a fully foamed mast. Your embedded wire would only slightly (and insignificantly) impair their solution.

If the factory DOES run wires in the mast and foams around them, I doubt you will be able to pull them out. Expanding foam is pretty damn sticky, then hardens like steel.

Paul

[Frank C]

... If the factory DOES run wires in the mast and foams around them, I doubt you will be able to pull them out. Expanding foam is pretty damn sticky, then hardens like steel. Paul

I was observing that it seems the factory wants a floating mast, but cannot accept the weight penalty of full foaming, and an open wiring chase adds weight too. I imagine that the M's heavier mast has actually COMPLICATED the factory's liability problems with the potential of turtling, or they wouldn't bother with the foam.

Even though foam is very sticky, that isn't to say it CANNOT be done, only that it HAS NOT been done. Could an extra wire be embedded? ... surely. Could a 1/4" line be slippery-wrapped (wax paper or such) and embedded? ... probably. Is the factory so-motivated? ... apparently not, but why not goad them a little?

What better way exists to measure the pulse of a market ... think they don't monitor these forums occasionally? Bet they're not so insensitive to ignore that opportunity. But, do they care enough to do something about the opinions, praise and complaints?

That depends on two things ... cost to implement and sales volumes. I'd also bet that sales volumes aren't terrific lately ... just let that overhead start biting into Roger's 401K, and you'll see more attention to the market's pulse ... not such a risky bet.

[Richard Lisch]

I don't know how well the Ms are selling but ordered my M beginning of December to be shipped today, April 1. BTW, there were already two price increases since the launch of the M boat.

[Paul S]

I don't know how well the Ms are selling but ordered my M beginning of December to be shipped today, April 1. BTW, there were already two price increases since the launch of the M boat.

Not sure, but my dealer has sold all his boats already and has a waiting list. I think there are more buyers than boats.

[Frank C]

... I'd also bet that sales volumes aren't terrific lately ... just let that overhead start biting into Roger's 401K, and you'll see more attention to the market's pulse ...

Quoting myself ...
As outsiders, we can measure this only by hull numbers. I had the impression that Macgregor's output is much reduced from the former pace of about 3 or 4 boats per day. I'm sure this style of boat remains in demand, and the factory has been backordered for years. That's how they operate, and I think it's been rare to see them build to inventory.

BTW, if demand has dropped, it wouldn't be too surprising to see prices ramp up to help cover overhead ... but that only works if your pricing was well below the market's value perception of the boat, maybe true as the X was terminated. If pricing rises above that value perception, demand falters. Who said Mac dealers are picking up other lines (?) ... maybe that's because they can't get enough Ms to maintain healthy operating volumes. Has production pace declined? ... jury's still out.