SportPilot Plus autopilot?

[Theo]

Howdy,

I also have a Sportpilot on my 2000X. I like it but don't use it that much. The problem I have is that the control stalk on mine is broken (bought it that way) and the former owner jury rigged it. The jury rig in now hung and I will need to replace the stalk. Per Raymarine that will be $287 and they highly recomment an authorized mechanic do the work. More $$$. The stalk just seems to be in an awkward position, prone to being bumped into. My two kids also seem to find it to be eminently fascinating and are often found changing my course for me.

I know that it is compatible with a GPS but not at the time I had my GPS installed. Now that I have info that it works well with the GPS I will probably hook it up when I fix the stalk. It is now #1 on my todo list since I found this summer I would use it more if I had full functionality. Even with the Admiral aboard it was a great convenience to be able to leave the wheel and deal with other stuff while leaving her to fuss with the kids.

Sincerely

Theo

[Bobby T.-26X #4767]

I like the unit and would probably buy it again for a Mac. The only thing that bothers me is the slight wobble in the wheel. My guess is this is allowance for the internal clutches.

i concur with that finding...
the wheel wobble/play leads me to believe that there's a better mouse trap out there.
the sport pilot does the job for the price, but i'd be willing to pay more for a more quality product.

[Chip Hindes]

I don't think you can blame steering wheel wobble on the autopilot. Except for a small amount of additional friction even when it's disengaged, (not necessarily a bad thing) the ST4000 has no effect on the steering. If your wheel had a wobble when you installed the AP it still will; if not, not. It's a characteristic of the steering, be it the original Detmar or an aftermarket replacement. I'd be really surprised if the Sportpilot were different.

[Billy]

Chip, I guess you need to experience the Sportpilot on a MacGregor and prepare to be surprised. If I remove the Sportpilot and reattach the wheel as it came from the factory (which I have done several times), the wheel is rock solid and can be turned with my little finger. From my understanding the mechanics of the Sportpilot and the ST4000 are a little different, only the electronics are the same. The Sportpilot, while engaged, will allow the wheel to be turned by the operator. The ST4000s I have used do not allow this. There is something inside the Sportpilot to allow this override or "slippage".

Also, the Sportpilot mounts directly on the steering post (or column), and then the wheel reattaches atop the Sportpilot. I understand the ST4000 leaves the wheel attached in the original position. Thus the Sportpilot becomes a link in the steering, while the ST4000 steers from "outside" the wheel.

When I originally installed my Sportpilot, I thought the wobble was from poor fitting of the parts supplied by Raymarine. I filed, sanded, etc. trying to machine the parts to fit tighter. This seemed to help a little. So either I need to fine tune and machine the adapters that come with the unit a little more or there's something internal contributing to the wobble. Could be the fitting of the parts. (I remain open-minded.)

As far a taking the Sportpilot straight out of the box and installing it on an X MacGregor, I and a few others I have talked with, have all experience a little wheel wobble. I seriously do not believe it is the factory steering.

[Chip Hindes]

Ah, so! The Sportpilot actually interposes itself between the steering wheel and the steering shaft. I am suitably surprised. Obviously, the ST4000 does not; the only reason you have to take off the steering wheel is because the (admittedly rather obtrusive) drive system is mounted to the forward side of the wheel.

However, it seems like the wobble is yet another recommendation for the ST4000. They're starting to mount up

Since it's been mentioned several times, the ST4000 has a two step engagement system. With the AP on "Standby," you first engage the clutch lever. This does not start the autopilot, it only locks the steering wheel to the drive system. Then the "Auto" button is pushed to start the AP on the current heading, previous heading, GPS track, whatever. To disengage, you only need to unlock the clutch and steer by hand. The autopilot will continue to attempt to drive the wheel until you hit the "Standby" button, but with the clutch disengaged nothing happens except drive system noise. Disengaging the clutch lever is an additional step if you're in a hurry, but pretty easy to get used to.

I suppose I could call this an advantage. The drive system is too stiff to be backdriven, so with the AP on Standby or turned off, you can engage the clutch and lock the wheel in any position, including (for instance) driving in circles. Unless the Sportpilot can do this too, in which case, never mind.

[Jack O'Brien]

Rick:

When my SportPilot went bad it just stopped holding a course. Raymarine said it stopped reading the compass input.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Tom,

When the pilot is following a GPS route at each waypoint (actually slightly before) it will begin to beep asking for permission to turn. It beeps one way for port and a different way for starboard. It does not automatically initiate the turn. Once you have checked that the way is clear to turn you press the stalk in to give it permission to turn. Until you do this it will continue on the previous course even past the waypoint. The turn rate must be slaved to a shift in the compass bearing rate in some way within the computer. I have never found the turn to be too abrupt no matter what my speed is.

Chip,

The Sport Pilot wobble is induced somewhere inside the unit, most likely in it's automatic clutch from what I can tell. The metal to metal connections at the wheel (front) and the steering shaft (back) are solid. I was concerned before I bought mine with tales of great wobble, but I must say it's reall quite small and after 2 years with the pilot I don't even notice it at all.

I feel the opposite about the way the ST4000 works as you. When all the sudden an obstacle looms up from the deep I want to be able to grab the wheel and change course instantly without messing with clutch levers. The sport pilot lets you manualy steer anytime you want even while the pilot is engaged. To me this is superior to the function of the ST4000 and if it means a little wobble in the wheel I'll gladly take it.

I also feel it is of even more value when more inexperienced helmspeople such as my wife and kids are operating the boat with the pilot on.

[Chip Hindes]

When all the sudden an obstacle looms up from the deep I want to be able to grab the wheel and change course instantly without messing with clutch levers.

The way I use my boat, "all of a sudden" doesn't often occur. I'd say never, but that would just open it up for more dire predictions of mythical hypothetical emergency situations wherein milliseconds will be the difference between life and death.

If it ever does, I'm not going to be "messing with the clutch lever". Disengaging the autopilot takes fractions of a second.

I'm not saying this is not a disadvantage, I'm only saying it's miniscule and there's no need to exagerrate.

Leaving the helm of my boat under the control of kids or any other inexperienced operator unsupervised, whether or not the AP is engaged, is not ever going to happen.

[Bobby T.-26X #4767]

is not ever going to happen

that's a long, long time...

[aya16]

My vote went to the sport pilot + as I just bought one and installed it last Fri.. I havent tried it yet, but the install went fairly smooth (read the directions!!!!!) The pilot turns the boat steering wheel while it sits on the trailer so I assume it works.
Will find out this weekend. Doesnt seem to be any slop as reported.

The compass for the unit fits nice in the back bed area on a gimbal mount I made. (I decided to gimble so there wont be any surprise turns on those 30 deg heel days) any one interested in how I gimbled let me know and ill set you up....mounted to the trim cover that hides the steering linkage seemed to be the best place.

It will be listening to my Lowrance 5500 and nautic path software and hopefully will work together fine.

The pilot just fits the M ped. Almost like it was made for the boat, the face of the M ped where you mount the unit is just long enough to mount the locking bracket that keeps the pilot from spinning. Also the fiberglass that you screw into for that bracket is very thick at that point.

Also replaced the standard steering wheel with an 18-inch destroyer. There is no reason to have to do this but I had a wood spoke 18 on before and liked the bigger wheel.

The one thing I will look forward to is being able to move around the boat a little while under way and trimming the sheets myself. Karen doesnt like
Me screaming " NOOOO YOUR OTHER LEFT" WHEN SHE TAKES THE WHEEL. And the cost of the pilot should be offset from the fees
From doctors for me or worse a lawyer. At least thats what I told her but sometimes I just want to sail myself and being able to hold course into the wind as the sails are lowered or raised appeals to me.

With the Lowrance 5500 for those long trips it should be fun not having to fight the wheel all the way. I chose the 5500 over the garmin and smaller 3500 because of the nauticpath software. It seems very detailed and works smooth. And having the whole USA coastline means I can go anywhere and have some map reference. I also carry a paper map chart book of Calif. The 5500 has a larger screen then the 3500 but the reality of it is there is no need to sit in front of this thing looking for hours at it, so I wanted to install it flush mount to the cockpit wall to the cabin outside
But forget that its too big. Maybe the 3500 would have fit but not this thing.
So ram mount to the ped is the best place I found so far. Also the option of radar added to the lorance is possible as its set up for a dome already.
Over kill at this point I think but the possibility is there. The GPS module fits nice on the mast holder/ arch where my vhf whip sits on the other side. I like this place as all the wires can be run through it and enter the boat with out exposing them to the outside. Then they are run up the ped post to the unit.

As I get used to and check it out this weekend Ill update. I do want to be able to pull the steering wheel off when we stop places overnight. So Ill be looking into this, I really didnt want to have tools on board that would be needed to do this, I just wanted to unscrew the nut and pull it off but with the tapered shaft it might be a little tuff. But the sport pilot came with a nifty nut wrench that will fit in the small tools box I have and maybe a small wheel puller wouldnt be too much to carry or take that long to pop off.
Of course I would 5200 the wooddrift key in place and carry a spare.

I sold my other boat yesterday and feel like I lost a child, we are down to 6 boats now 3 sail 2 inflatables and a Boston whaler. But by far the most
Versatile one is the Mac. I love to sail and going nowhere in no hurry just
Brings a Vail of peace on me, Except when Im hanging on to the side of the Mac by my fingernails yelling "NOOOO YOUR OTHER LEFT" but hopefully those days are behind me now.

See ya out there

[richandlori]

aya,
What are your other two sailboats?

Rich

[aya16]

A snark, does that count? and the other is a 12 foot montgomery I think thats how you spell it. The Montgomery is a pretty cool boat full geneo and main center board and wood trim all over.

[Frank C]

My vote went to the sport pilot + as I just bought one and installed it last Fri.. I haven’t tried it yet, but the install went fairly smooth (read the directions!!!!!) The pilot turns the boat steering wheel while it sits on the trailer so I assume it works.
Will find out this weekend. Doesn’t seem to be any slop as reported.
... See ya out there

aya16,
That's a great post (!) and closely matches my tentative planning for autopilot, and for your overall "usage model" (control & protection of the Admiralty).

I'm curious about the wobble issue, so I'll look forward to reading your updates!

[aya16]

frank there is no wobble that I can see but normal slop in the steering you have with out the unit, play,.

I think I know what is going on with the wobble thing though...In the kit you get a 3/4 -1 inch adapter with a wooddrifht key. In the directions there is a drawing that shows the key being installed in place of your old key at the wheel. But if you look close the drawing is for a 1 inch shaft not our 3/4. If someone installed the old key with the sport pilot and the new key with the steering you will get wobble. You must install the new key with the adapter before you install the pilot and use the old key on the pilot shaft to install your wheel back on....the new key will work but its higher and makes the pilot tighter...

[Luke]

Ive had the SportPilot Plus for a year and a half.
This month I sold the SportPilot and bought a Wheelpilot ST4000MK2.

I bought a used SportPilot Plus in May 2004, for approximately $500
Installed it on my 1999 MacX. The unit did not work. I sent the head unit to RayMarines service center. They told me it needed a new motherboard and a software upgrade. $300.
I had invested as much as a new unit would have cost, and I did not have a warranty

I reinstalled the repaired SportPilot. It worked. Sort of. It would work flawlessly for hours on end, and then it would quit working for no apparent reason. Or, it would work but then stop maintaining a straight line while motoring in calm water. Even with the lowest gain setting, the boat would wander.

June 2005, I sailed solo on a 500 mile round trip to the Abacos Regatta with Billy (Double XX) and Rick (Mental Floss). I really needed a reliable autopilot. The SportPilot worked fine all night on the 60-mile Gulf crossing in two to three foot chop. The next day it quit. The third day it would work intermittently. A week later, on the way back to Florida, the SportPilot worked flawlessly while it listened to the Garmin GPS for course corrections. It stayed within 20 feet of the rhumb line for hours on end. Beautiful! Then when I needed it most, the night crossing of the Gulf Stream back to Floridait failed again.

I had more talks with RayMarines technicians. I learned that they get these complaints frequently. They told me that the SportPilot has a hard time doing its job on boats that have lots of play in the steering system (my steering has 4 to 5 inches of play). The technicians explained the system would work better if I would add a rudder position sensor. I believe Jack OBrien got the same story a year ago, and he installed the rudder sensor on Gostosa. Ive followed Gostosahis SportPilot holds a straight line.

I removed the SportPilot and sold it to my neighbor. He installed it on his 26-foot cabin cruiser. His boat weighs four times as much as my MacX. The boat has hydraulic power steering with no play. My neighbor claims my SportPilot Plus works flawlessly on his boat.

Last week I bought a RayMarine WheelPilot ST4000MK2. Got it at my local West Marine (they had the best deal I could find).

Im using Chip Hindes installation pictures from the MODS section of this website as I install the unit on my boat. Looks to be an easy installation.

Why did I choose the WheelPilot vs. keeping my SportPilot and adding a rudder position sensor?
RayMarines service department told me I would be happier with a WheelPilot
My neighbor wanted my SportPilot
Warranty: With the new WheelPilot I got a four-year, over-the-counter exchange of failed components at any West Marine.
The components are separate: the head unit and the motor drive are not a combined unit, which simplifies service work.
The new WheelPilot comes with the rudder position sensor.
The system is more easily tuned for your individual boat (software driven).
The WheelPilot motor drive is more powerful than the SportPilot Plus motor.
Auto tack feature.
No additional wheel-wobble. The SportPilot interposes itself between the steering wheel and the steering shaft, which means that the wheel will wobble.
Reduced friction in the steering system compared with the SportPilot: the SportPilot clutch drags.

What I do not like about the WheelPilot is the need to manually engage and disengage the clutch.
I should know within a month how the WheelPilot performs on the water compared to the SportPilot.

Luke
DreamChaser
Boardman, Ohio
1999 X
Honda 50