Could we please agree not to use the term pulling a 4000 pound Mac "like it's not even there?"
If you really believe this, you're not paying attention.
Tow Vehicle - MacGregor Description
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Chip Hindes
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Beam's Reach
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I've always avoided this topic because I didn't want to be chewed out for being unsafe. We bought a 2005 Pontiac Montana extended version with a towing package just before we bought our Mac. We thought this would be a good choice once the decision on a boat was made. Then we decided on the Mac and made the deal but couldn't pick the boat up for about 2 months because it was snowed in at the dealer's yard.
During that 2 months I spent a lot of time on this board and became quite concerned that we had made the wrong decision on a tow vehicle. Unfortunately, both deals were made. The van is the right choice for our family plus we have a small second (and third) vehicle and we just can't afford a separate tow vehicle that will rarely be used.
The Montana has worked out fine for us. I know some will say it is underpowered or undersized for the Mac and the argument will go something like "just because you haven't had any problems yet, doesn't mean it's safe".
The furtherst I've pulled it was a couple of hundred miles when we picked it up and I took it nice and easy ('cause I was scared as h#ll
).. Other than that, we tow about 5 blocks to our local marina or about 20 miles to the cottage. The only real problem we've had is at a concrete ramp covered in sand, and at a small gravel ramp with two narrow pavement track for the tires. In both cases the front tires slipped badly, but it came out. Pulling has been fine as long as we take it slow. I also have the spare tire mounted up front to help with the tongue weight althought I still notice a bit of sway on the highway so a little more weight upfront would probably be a good idea.
And of course I notice it's there. When we left the boat at the cottage and brought the trailer home empty, we were in the left turn lane waiting for the signal to change. I was just bragging about how well everything had gone, especially my new found towing skills. I made the left turn as usual...that's "as usual" as in " without a trailer", as in "not turning wide enough", and the trailer's wheel jumped up over the median then down the other side and the whole trailer was bouncing behind us. Luckily the traffice signal pole was set back far enough that we missed it.
So now I really try to consciously think about what I'm towing all the time...even when I can't feel it.
During that 2 months I spent a lot of time on this board and became quite concerned that we had made the wrong decision on a tow vehicle. Unfortunately, both deals were made. The van is the right choice for our family plus we have a small second (and third) vehicle and we just can't afford a separate tow vehicle that will rarely be used.
The Montana has worked out fine for us. I know some will say it is underpowered or undersized for the Mac and the argument will go something like "just because you haven't had any problems yet, doesn't mean it's safe".
The furtherst I've pulled it was a couple of hundred miles when we picked it up and I took it nice and easy ('cause I was scared as h#ll
).. Other than that, we tow about 5 blocks to our local marina or about 20 miles to the cottage. The only real problem we've had is at a concrete ramp covered in sand, and at a small gravel ramp with two narrow pavement track for the tires. In both cases the front tires slipped badly, but it came out. Pulling has been fine as long as we take it slow. I also have the spare tire mounted up front to help with the tongue weight althought I still notice a bit of sway on the highway so a little more weight upfront would probably be a good idea.And of course I notice it's there. When we left the boat at the cottage and brought the trailer home empty, we were in the left turn lane waiting for the signal to change. I was just bragging about how well everything had gone, especially my new found towing skills. I made the left turn as usual...that's "as usual" as in " without a trailer", as in "not turning wide enough", and the trailer's wheel jumped up over the median then down the other side and the whole trailer was bouncing behind us. Luckily the traffice signal pole was set back far enough that we missed it.
So now I really try to consciously think about what I'm towing all the time...even when I can't feel it.-
Chip Hindes
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The original poster's question was whether MacGregor was misrepresenting the 26M's 4000 lbs being towable by a standard car like the Ford Crown Victoria.
The towing capacity of the Crown Vic has been 1500 lbs since long before the M ever came out (i.e. 2001 is the earliest year I can find data on). The current Ford Taurus is 1,250 lbs, and the Chevrolet Impala and its kin are 1,000 lbs, like the Ford 500.
The ole sedan, she ain't what she used to be, many long years ago.
The towing capacity of the Crown Vic has been 1500 lbs since long before the M ever came out (i.e. 2001 is the earliest year I can find data on). The current Ford Taurus is 1,250 lbs, and the Chevrolet Impala and its kin are 1,000 lbs, like the Ford 500.
The ole sedan, she ain't what she used to be, many long years ago.
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Terry
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Attention???
But I do Pay Atttention! 
I use the expression because of the difference between my old tow vehicle and my new one.
I used to have a '95 2door Chevy Blazer S10 4x4 195hp 260 lbs/ft torque 100" wheelbase and 5000# towing capacity. It had all the power and muscle to do the job, even yanked the boat out with full ballast easily. Where I noticed it's drawbacks was at higher speeds on the freeway. With the short wheelbase and a trailer that was heavier than the tow vehicle I had the tail wagging the dog, I could not exceed 55 mph without having a white knuckle ride. As long as I kept to short distances and off the freeway it was a non issue. But alas I got t-boned in it and it was a write off so I took the opportunity to get a bigger one. Enter the big Trailbllazer, it is so much better that, compared to the little Blazer, it tows "like it is not even there"
I use the expression because of the difference between my old tow vehicle and my new one.
I used to have a '95 2door Chevy Blazer S10 4x4 195hp 260 lbs/ft torque 100" wheelbase and 5000# towing capacity. It had all the power and muscle to do the job, even yanked the boat out with full ballast easily. Where I noticed it's drawbacks was at higher speeds on the freeway. With the short wheelbase and a trailer that was heavier than the tow vehicle I had the tail wagging the dog, I could not exceed 55 mph without having a white knuckle ride. As long as I kept to short distances and off the freeway it was a non issue. But alas I got t-boned in it and it was a write off so I took the opportunity to get a bigger one. Enter the big Trailbllazer, it is so much better that, compared to the little Blazer, it tows "like it is not even there"
That's not what I understood his post to mean. But hey, you're the moderator, so if you want to dictate what means what - that's fine.Chip Hindes wrote:OK. As long as the point he's making is that he's not paying attention.I believe Terry should use what ever figure of speech he wishes to make his point.
Just do us a favor and post a list of definitions so we know what we mean.
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Chip Hindes
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I'm not dictating or "pulling moderator" here, and I'm certainly not about to try to define all the terms. That's why I posed my suggestion in the form of a question. Maybe I should have used some smileys to soften it still further. 
How's this?
I am trying to inject a little reality and perhaps some usefulness into the commentary.
Stating some particular vehicle pulls the Mac "like it wasn't there" is obviously only a figure of speech. I don't imagine anybody actually believes it's true, so I suppose you could call it harmless. It's also useless as a basis for comparison with other vehicles.
Also, I don't mean to pick on Terry. He's certainly not the first to have used this expression, and I'm quite sure he won't be the last.
Terry has refined his definition by stating it's like it wasn't there compared to his old Blazer. No surprise, he's switched from a vehicle which was probably inadequate by most measures to one which is adequate. That's fine, it's useful information, and I would not even have commented if that had been his original statement.
Though I would make two additional points: 1) with an original '95 Blazer as comparison, you could probably say the same (pulls like it isn't there) about perhaps 90% of the vehicles being used to tow the Mac
To stretch the figure of speech in the other direction, words to the effect: "Compared to my previous totally inadequate tow vehicle, my current vehicle pulls the Mac like it isn't there." 2) if he had switched from his current model Trailblazer to (say) a Suburban, in comparison he'd probably be saying the same thing.
BTW, just to kick off the next round of discussion, I have the hitch installed on my '94 Ranger shorty 4x4, 4.0 liter V6, 5 speed. I have the 7-way lighting adapter as well. As soon as I get the lighting adapter installed, I'm going to give it a ride. Wouldn't think about it for long Interstate trips compared to the Expedition, but on short, back road runs to the river and back, should be just fine.
Let the games begin.
How's this? I am trying to inject a little reality and perhaps some usefulness into the commentary.
Stating some particular vehicle pulls the Mac "like it wasn't there" is obviously only a figure of speech. I don't imagine anybody actually believes it's true, so I suppose you could call it harmless. It's also useless as a basis for comparison with other vehicles.
Also, I don't mean to pick on Terry. He's certainly not the first to have used this expression, and I'm quite sure he won't be the last.
Terry has refined his definition by stating it's like it wasn't there compared to his old Blazer. No surprise, he's switched from a vehicle which was probably inadequate by most measures to one which is adequate. That's fine, it's useful information, and I would not even have commented if that had been his original statement.
Though I would make two additional points: 1) with an original '95 Blazer as comparison, you could probably say the same (pulls like it isn't there) about perhaps 90% of the vehicles being used to tow the Mac
To stretch the figure of speech in the other direction, words to the effect: "Compared to my previous totally inadequate tow vehicle, my current vehicle pulls the Mac like it isn't there." 2) if he had switched from his current model Trailblazer to (say) a Suburban, in comparison he'd probably be saying the same thing. BTW, just to kick off the next round of discussion, I have the hitch installed on my '94 Ranger shorty 4x4, 4.0 liter V6, 5 speed. I have the 7-way lighting adapter as well. As soon as I get the lighting adapter installed, I'm going to give it a ride. Wouldn't think about it for long Interstate trips compared to the Expedition, but on short, back road runs to the river and back, should be just fine.
Let the games begin.
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Chip Hindes
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Well I do not know what are you talking about.
When I pull my 97X with my Civic it's like it's wasn't there. And I am paying attention. In the mean time I'll have to see my Honda dealer since I noticed while towing car accelerate much slower, and the suspension feels quite different, whole vehicle will start rocking approximately 17 feet after I went over speed bump, strange huh.
But when I am going towards launch ramp it is like it wasn't there.
Zoran
Important: I am towing with Civic only on the parking lot from my parking spot to launch and back, if you attempt to do the same it is at your own risk and expense.
When I pull my 97X with my Civic it's like it's wasn't there. And I am paying attention. In the mean time I'll have to see my Honda dealer since I noticed while towing car accelerate much slower, and the suspension feels quite different, whole vehicle will start rocking approximately 17 feet after I went over speed bump, strange huh.
But when I am going towards launch ramp it is like it wasn't there.
Zoran
Important: I am towing with Civic only on the parking lot from my parking spot to launch and back, if you attempt to do the same it is at your own risk and expense.
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kmclemore
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Well, all I know is that my Toyota Sienna seems to tow my old Mac just like it's not even there!
Heck, it's so easy to tow I don't even have to pay attention!
(Sorry Chip.. just winding you up! )
Anyway, if you wanna see 'over the tow limit', click HERE! (Warning - this links to a 1MB movie, probably NSFDU).
Heck, it's so easy to tow I don't even have to pay attention!
(Sorry Chip.. just winding you up! )
Anyway, if you wanna see 'over the tow limit', click HERE! (Warning - this links to a 1MB movie, probably NSFDU).
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Jeff S
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Just a note for the original question. Notably in the video the boat did not have a motor, and probably not much else. It is probably as close to the 2400# weight as you could get. With the trailer weight we are probably talking about 300-400# tongue weight which is why the car isn't totally bottomed out. As far as moving the boat...heck, wasn't it Jack LaLane who pulled a locomotive with his teeth (old guys chime in here ). By that measure a Yugo could pull the Mac, but braking, cornering, sway and wear and tear are another question. So Macgregor is correct in its Sedan statement (Crown Vic), but it is misleading as under normal towing conditions you would not find an "expert" willing to say it is acceptable to tow the Mac with most sedans. Not sure about the Volvo specifically, they are heavier than most sedans and a wagon has a longer wheelbase so there may be a small number of sedans that pull the Mac acceptably. The problem becomes what is acceptable, which is subjective as these posts show.
Personally-- I always wanted a Cummins Turbo Diesel so I bought a boat to justify buying the truck to pull it .
Jeff S
). By that measure a Yugo could pull the Mac, but braking, cornering, sway and wear and tear are another question. So Macgregor is correct in its Sedan statement (Crown Vic), but it is misleading as under normal towing conditions you would not find an "expert" willing to say it is acceptable to tow the Mac with most sedans. Not sure about the Volvo specifically, they are heavier than most sedans and a wagon has a longer wheelbase so there may be a small number of sedans that pull the Mac acceptably. The problem becomes what is acceptable, which is subjective as these posts show. Personally-- I always wanted a Cummins Turbo Diesel so I bought a boat to justify buying the truck to pull it .
Jeff S
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Dimitri-2000X-Tampa
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I pulled my Mac out yesterday with full ballast and 5 people in the 2001 Honda Odyssey minivan. Granted, I don't ever have to take it much more than an hour or so away, but the class2 Odyssey with its longer wheel base and a bit more weight than the average sedan pulls the mac just fine and I don't ever feel any more unsafe than in a light truck. The Honda probably handles better than many light trucks. I try not to load up the rig much if I'm going further away. Yes, it does take a bit more concentration when trailering but it handles just fine as long as there is 250+ pounds on the hitch. Eventually, I'll get a big fat SUV but I'm not in a big hurry....maybe next year. I already had the Odyssey when I bought my Mac back in June 03...the van was only 2 years old then and I didn't want to take the big depreciation hit on it. Anybody tow with a Toyota Sequoia? I've been lookin at those along with Suburbans.