26X Hull Model

[Chip Hindes]

So here's my first try at a poll. There is no option "I don't want a model". It's easy, if you don't want one, don't vote. I'm also going to assume most would prefer a hull including topsides rather than a hull only.

Sorry M and 19 owners, not enough poll options to include you. You're welcome to start our own polls.

[Chip Hindes]

Dang. I may have missed something. Everybody who voted so far knew we were talking about a "half-hull" and topsides, rather than a full, free standing model, right? If you didn't understand it to be a half hull, please provide a brief reply stating such.

[Lovekamp]

So far, the poll is looking overwhelmingly like under $100. So the short version is that we aren't going to get someone to make them for that.

I would rather have an extremely accurate, free-standing model for $250. Unfortunately, that probably wouldn't cover the artist's time either.

[Chip Hindes]

I'm afraid I agree that it can't be reasonably done for under $100; in fact, I was feeling my own choice of $100-150 was pretty much wishful thinking.

I knew Mac owners were cheap (before you all get hurt and pi$$ off, I would normally include myself in that catergory as well) but this seems a little stingy even for us cheapskates. It appears everyone's saving their boat bucks for their real toy.

There are a lot of ways to go about this. I'd prefer a fully accurate, complete model as well, but I can pretty much guarantee I won't be willing to pay anywhere near what one would be worth.

I would be willing to do all the paint, mounting and finish work myself. What else do I have to do when the boat's covered with snow except spend far too much time on this Discussion Board? But I'm not confident in my ability to do an accurate hull shape. If there are others in this category, perhaps we could work it out to get hull blanks for something reasonable and take it from there.

[Todd Dunn]

I would like to make a few comments about the fiscal and time realities of model building.

The first step for a production run of models is to get the drawings from the builder or designer. That typically costs about $40-$50. The next step is to build molds for the hull and deck. Deparate molds are required because of the shape of the cockpit and other details on the deck. In other words, you couldn't use a single mold and pull the model from the mold. Building the molds is a two step process. The first step is to build the plug, which is a hand crafted model with a very high quality finish. I would expect to spend in the neighborhood of 40-50 hours building the plugs for the hull and deck molds. Once the plugs were built, I would expect to spend another 8-10 hours building the molds themselves. The costs involved at this stage are relatively small at approximately $40. So we would be looking at 50-60 hours of labor + about $90 in materials and other costs to produce the molds.

Once the molds have been built models can me made. The process is as follows.

1. Wax the mold thoroughly I normally I use 6-8 coats of wax because you do not want the part to stick to the mold. For models after the first one made from a mold, there is often a bit of mold repair to be done too. - 30 minutes

2. Mask the mold and paint colored gel coat on areas of contrasting color such as boot and cove stripes and deck non-skid areas. - 30 minutes

3. After the gel coat in step 2 has reached its initial cure stage, remove the masking and spray on the base color gel coat for the model. - 15 minutes

4. When the gel coat has reached its initial cure stage do the fiberglass layup of the model (1 layer of 3/4 oz. mat followed by a layer of 6 oz cloth. Seal the surface with wax or polyvinyl alchohol. - 30 minutes

5. After the fiberglass cures, pull the part from the mold and trim the part. - 30 minutes

The total time to build a model is about 4.5 hours (2.25 hours for each part). Materials costs for a hull and deck are about $5 (gel coat, fiberglass cloth and mat, resin, wax).

Once you have the hull and deck the two parts have to be assembled, mounted on the backing board and then detail components are installed.

Assembling the model will take about 1-2 hours because of the need to make sure the hull-deck joint is properly mated and trimmed out. This step may involve filling small gaps and sanding and gel coating any filler. Materials costs are about $3 (glue, filler, gel coat, wax or PVA).

Building and installing a minimal set of detail components (rudder and tiller, stub mast and boom, cleats, windows) will take about 4 hours. Materials costs are about $4.

So the model requires about 10 hours to build and costs about $12.

For a 3/4"=1' scale model (19.5" long), the mounting board will be 10"x24" or about two board feet. Mahogany and cherry currently cost about $8 per board foot, so the mounting board will cost $16.

The mounting board has to be cut to size. Cherry is seldom available in 10" widths, so two boards have to be laminated together to get the desired width. Once the right size board has been cut out the edges are chamfered with the router and then the board is sanded to 220 grit. - 1 hour.

The sanded mounting board is then varnished. My experience is that a quality finish required about 6 coats of varnish. It takes about 30 minutes per coat to sand and the varnish the board. So the time to prepare varnish the mounting board is about 3 hours. The cost is about $2 for the varnish and about $3 for foam brushes and sand paper.

The mounting board cost about $21 and takes about 4 hours.

Finally an engraved brass nameplate costs about $15 and takes about one hour to order (layout plate on computer, e-mail price request to the engraver, type up and mail the formal order and check for payment), Install the nameplate when it arrives from the engraver.

Total time to produce a model is thus about 15 hours and the cost is about $46.

Packing a model for shipping takes about 30 minutes and costs about $5.00 (box, packing materials and tape). Shipping costs from $12 to about $17 for UPS ground depending on where in the USA the model is going. Say $20 is an average shipping cost with 30 minutes of labor.

Overall, I would be looking at about 15.5 hours of labor and a cost of about $66 to build and ship a 3/4"=1' scale half model with cabin, coskpit and minimal detail. On top of that I have to amortize the time and costs to build the molds. If I spread the mold costs and time over 15 models, that adds $6 to the cost of each model and 4 hours to the time for each model. That brings my cost for each model to $72 and my time to about 20 hours. I also have costs associated with running my shop (heat, lights, etc.).

Given that I don't work for free, the absolute minimum price that I would ask for a minimally detailed Mac 26X model with hull, deck, cabin, cockpit, rudder, tiller, winches, and cleats and mounted on a cherry or mahogany board is $400. At that cost I would only earn about $16.40 an hour. Would you work for that?

Finally, my custom built models are signed, dated and numbered. Production models would not be signed, numbered or dated.

If you want a model for under $100, then it will have to be manufactured in China. You are not going to get an American craftsman to do it for that.

Todd Dunn

[Catigale]

Todd ..thanks for that insight...if you run the poll again I bet you get $25 now though....

...and half the Board will want Walmart to carry them....

(flame suit on)

[Beam's Reach]

Very good points Todd. I think many of us look at a product and say "Gee, that doesn't look too tough...how much could it cost?" But most of us don't know all the steps required to get to the finished product and we forget that the biggest factor is ... time. And of course any craftsman should be fairly compensated for their time.

I can't justify $400 for a model of my Mac when I could spend it on the real thing like Chip says, or hang a picture of it on the wall above my desk. That certainly doesn't mean I disagree with your cost estimates...just that we're not being realistic.

Thanks for the insight. And welcome aboard!

[kmclemore]

Todd, I used to have the same problem with customers when I used to own a restoration shop for vintage cars. You could never get folks to understand how long it takes to develop true museum-quality work, and that the parts materials are really the smallest part of the price - it was the labor that really hit the bottom line hardest. I had a guy working for me that was trained in bodywork at the Jaguar factory, and was brought up through the English apprentice-to-journeyman old-school methods... I had to pay him well, but he was worth every penny in terms of producing high quality workmanship - and instilling it in others by teaching and example, too. There's no substitute for skilled hands.

[Chip Hindes]

Thanks, Todd, for your contribution. It's pretty much what I was afraid of when I put my $100-150 bid in.

No, I wouldn't work for $16.40 an hour.

I'm sure your models are worth every penny of the $400 you would charge, just as a Mercedes or Lexus is worth every penny.

But the reality is, if I could afford a Mercedes, I wouldn't be driving a Ford; and if I could afford $400 for a model of my sailboat, my sailboat wouldn't be a Mac.

I still think there is a more reasonable way to do this than a custom handmade model. I will continue to investigate.

[Scott]

I voted 250+ because I want an RC mac!!

[Rich Smith]

Hey Todd...I notice you make kits for around the $100 mark...would you consider making a run of kits that we can build ourselves? That way we could provide a lot of the labour and the backing board ourselves...


just a thought...I'd love to have a model and I understand that you need to make money but I just can't rationalize the $400...

Cheers,
Rich.