How many of you 26X or 26M skippers take your boats offshore, using them as coastal cruisers? If you do sail them in blue water, how often do you do so. - Routinely, monthly, once or twice a year, etc.?
I'm trying to get an understanding of how the Macs are actually used, and whether they are being used at least occasionally for blue water sailing. As you probably know, some of the Mac-bashers claim that the boats' rigging, linkages, etc., are so lightly built that they are not safe for offshore sailing and should be restricted to sailing in sheltered waters, lakes, etc. - My impression is that many Mac owners who live in coastal areas do take their boats offshore, though probably not (intentionally) in heavy weather.
Comments and recommendations about offshore sailing will also be appreciated.
If you do sail your 26X or 26M offshore, it might be interesting to know how far out you have gone, along with any comments on how the boat handles in such conditions.
Blue water sailing in a Mac, I guess the first thing is to define Blue water. I am not the one to do it, but I can give a stab at it from my view point. I consider Blue water sailing to be the following: sailing in any body of water that takes you out of the site of land and typically more than a days sail or motor from land or the nearest port. Is that an accurate description? I dont know, but here is what I do know. I have personally taken the Mac about 25 miles from the California coastline and personally know of others who make trips of 20-30 miles offshore all the time and have been doing so for years. Would I take my Mac to Hawaiihell no, would I feel comfortable taking it down the California/Mexican coast, through the Canal and then up the gulfsure. It would be cramped, but safely doable.
I think it all depends on the definition of Blue water and in the typical definition in the sailing world the Mac is NOT a BLUE WATER BOAT but I believe it is a fine coastal cruiser.....some will laugh but hey thats ok.
Not sure if that help, or even if I myself are clearmaybe others can help
These boats are fine for harbor-hopping in fair weather, so I have a definition closer aligned with Rich. Blue water is anywhere you're beyond a 1/2 day to return to safe harbor, and/or beyond a reasonably safe weather-window. I judge a safe weather-window at one day (here on the West coast) but I'm certain that must vary by locale.
The powersailer is good for 12 knots, and a "safe day" is about 10 hours. Therefore, in calm conditions you can go about 100 miles out - as long as there's a harbor out there. Otherwise, I'd say 40 miles out, some time to fish or play, 40 miles back. My admittedly casual figures include an rough attempt at leaving about a one-third safety margin.
Anytime you risk sailing at night or risk weather conditions that you didn't plan for ... you're beyond the Mac's safe range, IMO. Bimini and Dry Tortugas fall within my comfort range, and the SoCal islands too. NorCal coastal destinations are a bit farther, and general sea conditions are more challenging, so I'll be more cautious yet along the NorCal coast.
I'm not sure I recognize that the continental shelf has particular bearing on the issue, for me, other than it usually means I'd be outside my distance parameter. Weather conditions can easily be more challenging over the shelf. Sailors frequently ELECT to sail BEYOND THE SHELF when heading north-bound along the West coast, for precisely this reason.
a "Bluewater boat" is capable of making ocean passages.
"safely" is many different definitions.
My Mac is not a blue water boat.
It does go offshore when I want it to. In really nasty weather I do not care for breakers on the coast,,,,,, I would rather be blown sideways with my mast on the waves,,,,than bouncing around close to the rocks near shore.
you dont have to trust me on this.....there are times a mac with an outboard cannot make headway with motor down and running 3000 rpm, sea room is the only thing that makes passage possible. We do not have "hurricanes" in the NW, but my mac is not fun even in a gale. ya cant escape, ya cant sleep, steering isnt tough enough, cant keep food down, everypossible thing loose in a cabin beating you continuously, CB banging like the bass from the subwoofers on a rice rocket, all you are really doing is riding it out.
There are a huge list of items not in the design or delivery of a mac. IT is a wonderful little pocket cruiser, with tremendous room for its size. Room that is "wasted" on lockers, pumps, reinforcement, attachements, tankage, and structure in "bluewater" vessels.
In answer to the original post questions.
If you are going to do most of your sailing off the coasts, and for durations over 3 or 4 days at a time, get a different boat. Nothing wrong with having a boat for each of your intended purposes.
However, sailing from seattle to sand diego or ketchikan(via the west side ov Van island) you're gonna be sore, tired, quaisy and late.
a smal boat is not going to go fast 50 miles or more out.
Another word to the wise....
if you go out like that .......in december when the weather is foul....you will find you go alone, few fisherman, few CG, few other vessels transiting, and most (intelligent, motivated, reasonable people are not going) to go with you, and will try to convince you not to go.
Dont get me wrong here
I love my mac as much as my other boats.
But it would not be my first choice for offshore, open sea, blue water, trans-At, trans-pac type journeys.
JMHO (single handing is not fun in crappy conditions)....after a couple of days babying the mac...little to no sleep, good chance your going to $&#* up.
I hope that you understand what a small blue water cruiser would be like for month or more on open water. Talk to people, read some of the logs or books like Kawabunga's South Seas Adventure. http://www.southseaspublishing.com/index.html It is very hard on you. Like "riding in a washing machine." Unless you really need to cross an ocean, you might just go to the Bahamas and the America Great Loop http://www.greatloop.com/index.htm for 2 or more years. On the hook every night and in a calm bay sure is a lot eaiser on the body and you can buy 2 or 3 or 4 Mac's for the same price. Giving it up in the middle of cruising means just bring the trailer where the boat is and taking it home.
The Mac is just not designed for "blue water", If it was it would be over $ 100,000.00
You should see what they are compairing the New Mac 26M to. Most 26 footers are not built for blue water. Make sure that what is being bashed is the same apple. Shame on those who bash. Their life must be a bit dull to have to hid behind the net and misleading statements.
Last edited by James V on Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Frank C wrote:Blue water is anywhere you're beyond a 1/2 day to return to safe harbor, and/or beyond a reasonably safe weather-window. I judge a safe weather-window at one day (here on the West coast) but I'm certain that must vary by locale.
as apposed to this dictionary definition: Blue Water is Open ocean sailing, as opposed to being in a lake or sound.
Give me a safe weather-window and a safe harbor. I live for these type of adventures.
My original note asked about taking the Macs offshore and using them as a coastal cruiser. (I don't think many of us would consider the Macs suitable for extended blue water sailing, crossings, or the like.) Sorry that I didn't make this clear.
To simplify things, I suggest defining blue water sailing for this discussion as anything beyond the sight of land (necessitating reliance on compass or navigation instruments of some type and subjecting the boat and skipper to at least some aspects of open water sailing). In our area on the Texas Gulf coast, if we go far enough out to see the water change to dark blue we are usually pretty far out, though I recognize that that isn't the case in other regions.
I have taken the Mac 32NM off shore in the Med only.Checked weather forecasts first. Had F4 at max.The boat sailed well.
Made sure I had the right safety gear such as EPIRB etc.Didn,t need it though.
It does not matter how far off shore you go in the Mac,just dont let its abilities run away with its capabilities and that goes for the skipper as well.
Certainly, a coastal boat like the Mac can make "bluewater" passages... when the bluewater is within the state the boat can survive. Over the years, there have been several folks who've taken a 13' Whaler to Bimini and back... under the right conditions. That doesn't make them "bluewater" boats. The bigger the boat, the greater the acceptable conditions, or said another way, the more opportunities to make the passage.
The basic premise of a "bluewater" boat is that you're so far out and so slow (hull speed), that you can't outrun a storm to safe harbor, so you and the boat HAVE to survive it, without injury to the crew. Even with these, you try to plan for comfortable conditions, but prepare for the worst.
Generally when we tell people that we plan on rowing a boat 900 km across a northern ocean the reaction is disbelief. Although not an easy task, it is not as dangerous as people might imagine.
What makes a boat seaworthy is not its size, but its design and integrity. An extreme example of a small, seaworthy vessel is a corked bottle. This buoyant object will survive the biggest of hurricanes. Essentially the same principals of an unsinkable bottle can be applied to a rowboat. The boat needs a sealed cabin, self-draining cockpit and ballast to bring it back upright if the seas are large enough to flip it over. A well-designed boat can flip end over end, drop off 30 foot waves and it will stay on the top of the ocean.
Since there is not a large market for offshore rowboats we had two options: we could custom-make a boat at a cost of almost $40,000 dollars or we could look for a boat that was designed for a different application and modify it to be an ocean rower.
We chose the latter option and purchased an 18 trailer sailer. The inherent qualities that make a boat good for both sailing and being towed behind the family sedan also make it an ideal vessel for rowing. Such a boat is designed to be both strong and light, move easily through the water, and to provide a weather-tight cabin to shelter the occupants. As well they have retractable, ballasted keels, which can be lowered in stormy conditions to increased stability and self-righting characteristics.
Our newly acquired rowboat cost a fraction of a custom built vessel and we have the added advantage of the benefits that come with mass production. Of course the boat is designed for sailing, and several modifications had to be made to make it an ideal rower. These include:
I consider the Mac a good coastal cruiser. I live in western Canada and continually go out in the Georgia Strait and San Juan area. This can get rough, 5'-6' breaking waves and, as waterwaves said, it can be quite uncomfortable. I have not gone on the west side of Vancouver island like waterwaves has as it can be some of the most challenging waters in the world, I am told. You pick your day. An article in "Pacific Yachting" (July 2004) discribed the Mac 26M as an excellent coastal cruiser.
Waterwaves, you mentioned being out in large waves and having the centerboard banging around. Did you have the sails up? If not, would you consider having only 1/4 - 1/3 of centerboard down? In rough seas did you meet the waves at 45 deg or straight on? Other than bobing around like an empty bleach bottle how did the boat react? Did you feel safe?
If youre saying past the sight of land, Its done everyday in a Mac.
Catalina is a 35-mile trip from my storage area, 15 of that is within a few miles of the coast. But on a clear day you can see the Island from
The starting point. Going across in snotty weather is done all the time too. But not in storms at least not by choice. The Santa Anna winds here
Can get Nasty, and it blows the wrong way that makes the seas confused and uncomfortable. But it doesnt stop me from going out if its a mild condition. It actually flattens the sea in mild conditions and cancels the offshore wind. We had that last weekend and Scott went to Catalina and said the seas were flat coming and going. I was out and the wind at around 2 in the afternoon was about 7 knots about half of what it normally is.
Going up and down the coast a few miles out marina to marina can be done easily in the Mac.
Frank I have to disagree with you on the night thing. It is really nice at night for the most part. And when youre out of sight of the lights of the city
Its awesome. The feeling of solitude is nice. I have crossed to Catalina at night many times, in many boats, and the seas seem gentle and the wind is not very strong if at all. Of course you have to go slow but when the moon lights the seas and your night vision is working good it feels very safe.
So far I have used the Mac in every inch of water that I have taken much bigger boats and it works just fine. But I really havent used much bigger boats to go far at all. I have gone straight out to sea from the early morning and gotten back at dark almost every day sail in the Mac.
I go so far out that the compass needs to be used to get back. Although
If you didnt use the compass you would still get back but not from where you started.
So can the Mac be used off shore is the real question. Yep and can it be done in a way that you feel safe and comfortable? Yep is it as comfortable as say 40 footer? I guess if the seas are normal here.
No matter how big the boat is you can only occupy so much space at a time, some of us that would be a little more then others. But you cant occupy all 26 or 40 feet at the same time. Now Bridgett can occupy twice the space as me and she only weighs 35 pounds, but she likes to stretch out and Im usually the one that has to give up space for her.
I find the Mac pointing into a rolling sea very comfortable at slow speeds.
I can even nap with no problem. Now I want to go sailing......Turkey pot pie anyone?
