Used 26x or new 26m?

[johnnyonspot]

Bill,

I have been in communication with you and got the DVD and brochure. What is your experience with people financing a new Mac? What is the range of the number of months they finance for? Average rates? Which lending institutions? I guess I could talk to my credit union and see what sort of flexibility they offer as far as length of loan. Also, what is the average end-price, not including tax/license, with... say a 50 hp Merc BF for the new 26M? What is your experience with the state of the boats you receive from the factory? I have read on here about people taking delivery and there being scratches in the gelcoat, swirls, and poorly buffed or unbuffed wax on the hull. How prevalent is this? What about getting the so-called "box-o-parts" with the new boat? Does this happen? How often?

Finally, to anyone, my main interest is sailing, not motoring. Given that, how well does the X sail? The M? Would going with a smaller OB on either improve the sailing characteristics?

[Moe]

If you do decide to buy new, I don't think you can do better than to buy from Bill. And I'm not just saying that because his prices are the best, or because you're in Minnesota and he's in Wisconsin. You're buying from a sailor with a keep-it-simple practical attitude, who won't try to sell you what you don't need. He offers some innovative options he's come up with, as well as the usual MacGregor options, at reasonable prices.

I didn't buy a boat from him, but did have him slug my sails, and bought his vang/mainsheet upgrade and rig-adjusting tool. I was pleased with the quality, service, and his way of doing business.

If you want to see accolades from someone who did get a boat from him, do a search on the word Bill, posted by member divecoz.

Bill contributes a lot to this forum, so I don't mind putting a plug in for him.

[Rolf]

If you own a house with equity, th e best obvious way to finance it is with an equity line of credit (currently at 6 %, but unfortunately rising!). All INTEREST on the line is tax deductible up to 100 grand. You could get a loan specifically for the boat and write off the interest as a second home since it has the head and galley. Doing this is a mistake IMO however because uncle sam only allow ONE second home tax deduction. In other words, if you finance just the boat and choose to write off the interest on that, you WOULD NOT be able to write off the interest on a home line of credit or second vacation home!
Rolf

[Hamin' X]

Well, there you go. Bill's boat and this motor Honda 50hp low emission 4-stroke outboard motor and your set for under $25k.

[Mark J]

So there is a Santa Claus? And he live in WI? How appropriate.

Johnny, nothing wrong with fomenting dissent. X vs M and motor-size are the eternal questions. I purchased a new M in 4/06. Suprising to me that the biggest cost of boat ownership has been depreciation. Financing, if you did it, would be second. Operational cost has been almost negligible, especially if you store it in the yard. I've divided my # of days on the water (40) by estimated depreciation and figure about $100 per day. More than I would have thought, but I'm new to boats.

I've seen lots of Xs out sailing on the Columbia, and performance isn't radically different from my perspective. And there are some virtually new Xs around. Worth poking around some boats. But I've had a great year, and no regrets about my $28K-32K is about the range w/o tax - $0 in OR

I grew up in Anoka, and spent endless hours canoeing on the Rum & Mississippi. Is that where you plan to cruise? Don't know about the river depth, but imagine deep enough down by the Coon Rapids dam?

Happy Holidays,
Mark J

[Moe]

I can appreciate the price on the motor on eBay, but it has other prices. This motor is a 25" extra-long shaft and the appropriate length for a Mac is 20" long shaft. If you're going for the speed of a 50HP, you don't want the drag of the extra length. If I was only using a 9.9-15HP for displacement mode operation, the extra drag isn't a big issue, and the extra length would help keep the prop and water intake submerged in heavy seas.

In this day of electronic fuel injection on the other 50HP motors from Suzuki, Yamaha, Mercury, and Evinrude, I'd tend to avoid the Honda with its carburetors and easy to clog tiny jets. When you get to the kicker-sized motors, carbs are your only choice. Still, if this motor doesn't get bid up too far, it's worth considering knowing these issues.

The MacGregor powersailors give up sailing capability for greater than hull speed performance. The squared off transom deep in the water creates hydrodynamic drag that slows the boat under sail, compared to sailboats that keep the transom out of the water and present a football shaped profile to the water. The heavier the weight aft and the deeper the transom, the greater the drag. I personally think a Mac with a lighter, lower horsepower motor should sail better and faster, and that's been verified by one member here who switched from a 50 to a Honda BF15. I don't think the lighter motor would make the boat perform nearly as well as a "real" sailboat though.

The water ballast design that makes trailering much easier puts the ballast high, where it has less ability to keep the boat from heeling. This is more of a problem in higher winds. These boats are known to be tender. The X has a flatter bottom and a little higher initial stability, while the M has a more V shaped bottom with a little higher reserve stability. Neither has the reserve stability of a traditional sailboat hull with much softer chines. On the other hand, the Mac chines are very soft for a powerboat, which reduces longitudinal stability when powering in following or quartering seas, leaving only the boards to provide that.

The centerboard or daggerboard designs that let the boat sit so low on the trailer and launch at shallow ramps, when combined with the additonal heeling, result in greater leeway than a boat with a keel. The incredible freeboard that provides standing head room, and so much room in the cabin, especially in the aft berth, compounds this problem.

Now all this being said, I think our X sailed just fine for our purposes, once I got the rig adjusted. I'm not as critical as some here, but we sailed far more than we motored, and a 9.9HP would've been sufficient for us. Some here have the attitude, why not buy a real sailboat if you aren't going to use the motor the boat is designed for. My answer is, the head room, space, trailerability launching ease and price still make the Mac a better purchase for some who don't care about the higher speed motoring.

One thing I did note in shopping for used boats was that prices of boats with only kicker sized motors were MUCH lower than those with 50HP motors. So much so, that you could almost pay for a new 50HP with the difference (not including controls, gauge, and rigging). In other words, I don't think those who paid for the 50HP motor lost much on that purchase. The depreciation on the boat seemed to be about the same, as did the time it took to sell the boats. Some are looking for these lower-priced boats to sell the kicker and replace it with a 90HP.

Something to consider if you're financing a big portion of a new boat is that in a year or so, you're going to be several thousand dollars upside down, owing much more on it than the boat is worth. Either make a down payment enough to cover that or set that money aside, or purchase gap insurance or a boat insurance policy that will pay the price of a new boat in the event of a total loss.

[richandlori]

Putting less than a 50hp motor on the boat will hurt you in the resale market on a new M..

Honestly...I went with a new (one month old) M but looking back would have been JUST as happy with a 2000+ X and had about 8-10K left in my pocket! Seriously, getting a used boat already with some "toys" will save you BIG TIME.

If you go with a M, the only thing you will regret is the $, I absolutely LOVE the boat, and it kills me to think of selling it...but I am looking at a Pearson 365 for serious offshore cruising.

If you are a serious sailor...the M does have some improved sailing properties, more sail area, rotating mast, larger mast, cleaner hull shape, the option for a Blue Hull....Just ask Mike (aya16) about that

[Bill at BOATS 4 SAIL]

The vast majority of people that buy boats from me use a home equity line of credit to purchase their boats.
So, I don't really know the length, interest rate, or lending institution.
www.FinanceResourceCenter.com is one of many places that do boat loans.
Average end-price would vary considerably. I suggest keeping it simple initially. You'll have ideas that there are things that you want or need, but after you've used your boat for awhile, rou'll realize that some of your ideas have changed.
You don't have to pay me any sales tax. You will probably have to pay the state sales tax where you register your boat.
You'll probably find minor cosmetic blemishes, but probably pretty minor, and we'll come to an greement before you leave. Actually, they've all been pretty good lately.
As for the "box-o-parts", that is the way it comes from MacGregor. I help you rig your boat at no charge.
Others on this site could probably give you a better opinion on the sailing and motoring characteristics. I think the X and the M are about as close as two boats can be. They're both great boats.

[Divecoz]

I would have to go back and look at all the recepts . .but mine is pretty loaded up and with a New Merc. 50 BF and with Lowrance handheld and mounted and VHF hand and mount and just tons of stuff I have bought and I think I am just barely under 30K . All I really need at this point is a stove I have the small Magna BBQ and a roll-up and small outboard . .
Oh sure I still buy odds and ends every so often. . because I want to not need to .
I bought from Bill and I got a great deal and a lot of nifty add-ons and some great ideas and the lessons /sailing we did was priceless and well if you buy from Bill I know you get a free topping lift among the rest . .
IMHO if you look around often enough and net-work a bit you'll find some great deals out there on stuff. . stuff you want

[johnnyonspot]

Mark

I think Rum is much too small for a 26 ft boat. My intent is to dock it on the West side of Mille Lacs Lake and save on the $$ a tow vehicle would cost. I can dock it for @ $800/yr. I would also trailer to Lk of the Woods and Superior, perhaps Lake Minnetonka. Of course, I would have to persuade my Old Man to let me borrow his truck for trailering... or, pickup a used Crown Vic perhaps??? Bwah!!!

[Mark J]

Johnny,
Was thinking more the Mississippi than the Rum. The stretch from Champlin to the Coon Rapids dam. I don't recall sailboats or marinas. Perhaps there's a surplus of better sailing on the lakes. I've read some interesting trip reports from LOTWs. It sounds great.

But the Rum to Mille Lacs would be worthy of an adventure book. 150 miles, once you get above the Anoka dam. Kinda like the African Queen, (without the German battleship).

I didn't include the cost of a new tow vehicle in the boat cost. That's what family is all about. (I did buy a new Tacoma after a few months of pulling the boat with a Mazda Tribute). Plenty of used Crown Victorias around. Police Interceptors with 190K miles And with a 4.5L engine, they probably have more torque that my V6 Toyota.

Curious to hear how the search turns out. Best of luck.
(remember the M is faster, taller, and better looking. Roger says so).
- Mark

[aya16]

I think the M would be a better choice as the girls like the double window thing and big mirror.

You have seen the comercials right? Would you rather have ( fill in the blank) or brand X?

And count on at least 35 thousand on a new boat, motor and some junk to throw on it. Bill of boats is a great guy to work with. Maybe he can mail you the boat like he mailed me my parts....Bill who licks all those stamps?


And Rich is right his boat is way faster then mine. But He cheated, he bent his mast so he can go faster on a port tack. And Rich when you get the new boat bring down to MDR we can grab a few beers and bend that mast too.

[johnnyonspot]

Maybe I can buy the Bluesmobile off of e-bay. Seriously, I am heavily leaning toward an X, if I buy it in next few months. I am thinking about waiting a year and just sticking it out on my M16 Scow next summer. Unless of course any of you Minnesota area Mac sailors need a crew.

[aya16]

Macs dont sail like real sailboats. Could have fooled me

[maddmike]

Might want to go to www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html and compare the two boats. Just scroll down and highlight 26M in the left hand box & 26M in the right hand (or visa versa). Very interesting stuff, Maddmike