Daggerboard Update

[delevi]

This post is a piggy-back to the Boat Show post which went off on a tangent with the DB, so I thought I would start a new post. So I took my 3rd damaged DB back to the dealer, who finally admitted that there was something wrong with it. It looks like they missed a few layers of fiberglass on the trailing edge. They also admitted for the first time that they previously saw chips on the trailing edges of their demo boats' DBs as well as other boats. Ah, the plot thickens. They inspected my hull and DB trunk and found everything to look just fine. This was my biggest concern. The damaged board is going to the Mac Factory on Tuesday to be inspected by Bill, and possibly Roger. Gosh, dont I feel important!

As for my custom keel... I finally approved the dimensions after the 3rd test plug, which turned out great. They started to build it today. About 10 days to complete it, plus however long it will take to ship via freight from Idaho. Cant wait to get it and start enjoying that performance boost. Its been a long ordeal, but if all goes well, Ill be racing with the multi-hull boats soon

[moonie]

Let me know how yours performs.I also have a gash on the leading edge on my D/B where it makes contact with the trunk when down. I have epoxied twice already.It seems a bit weak in this area.
I would be interested in purchasing one of yours if all goes well.

[LOUIS B HOLUB]

I prefer a swing fiberglass swing keel as on my Mac-X. So many waters are varied in depth...including dangers of sunken wire Crab Traps that are abandoned, and all sorts of other debris. My boat bumps into that stuff in my area. Ive seen so many chipped dagger boards already...and the costs to replace are high. Otherwise, the "M" hull design has real class, and is an awesome roomey boat. I just think the D/B was a costly error in design as a "family shallow water boat".
If, or when, I purchase an "M"...I'll keep an extra D/B available. But, meantime, I and my trustworthy Mac X are sailing along okay bumping stuff with no problems...

Holub Boat

[Richard O'Brien]

I just think the D/B was a costly error in design as a "family shallow water boat".

I haven't had problems except once when I drifted laterally against some breakwater rocks, witha dead outboard. It was my second time out, and I'm not sure even a swingkeel wouldn't have gotten a couple of chips. The performance advantage of the daggerboard is worth it to me. Delevi's problems may be a manufacturing quality control issue? My board has taken some hard whacks, and is in good shape. I may run some chopped glass and epoxy down inside eventually, but I'm still waiting for a performance report from BaldBaby, and Delevi. Both will have new heavier boards.

[James V]

delevi - I was wondering how many other dagger boards are like this. I would assume that the specks would change for boards that was not made correctly. I would think that it would not be as wide or thick. Can some people measure theirs and report what they find?

Delivi - do you have any spec's on the bad DB?

[Frank C]

Macgregor does not post here, but you can guess that they read here. The Mac factory has a long tradition of standing behind their product. But they avoid trumpeting that fact, which is quite understandable. They consistently route owner issues through the dealers.

These boats are rarely faced with severe weather conditions, but the factory won't tolerate mfg specs that leave an owner wondering about whether the boat can handle some wind and chop. I'll be very surprised if you don't see a DB note in the factory's "Manufacturing Changes for 2007" memo, "The daggerboard design has been modified for enhanced durability during even challenging weather conditions ...."




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[Richard O'Brien]

delevi - I was wondering how many other dagger boards are like this. I would assume that the specks would change for boards that was not made correctly. I would think that it would not be as wide or thick. Can some people measure theirs and report what they find?

Delivi - do you have any spec's on the bad DB?

The boards are undoubtedly cast in halves into a mold then joined. There are centrifugal casters and spinning sprayers, but I can't imagine how you could brush down the mat fiberglass into a 2" space. I'll bet the weakness (presuming there is one) lies in the joinery, and that is why the cracks are on a leading or trailing edge. The outside dimensions are fixed by the molds.

[delevi]

I have the specs on the dammaged board, my 3rd one. I didn't measure the previous two. The current one has a cord lenght of 16 1/8" and width of 1 7/8" at its widest point. The overall length is 69 1/2". My new board will have the same length, but cord length will be 16 5/8" (1/2" more) and thickness of 2 1/8" (1/4" more) This reduces the tollerances, taking up much of the slop from the stock db/trunk. There's still plenty of clearance and a bit more movement than I would like, but I suppose it can't be air-tight, otherwise it will jam up, especially with an overall weight of approx 180 lbs. The new board will also have two strips of UHMW built into the leading & trailing edges on the top 16" of the board, the part that sits in the trunk when fully down with an extra inch or so-margin. This stuff is super strong and smooth, able to tollerate a lot of fricition without breaking down. It is also supposed to be self-lubricationg, though I don't quite get that part. These protective strips will be grooved right into the edges and be flush with the rest of the board. Joel @ IDA sailor told me that they can also be replaced in the future if they do wear through. The carbon/epoxy skin of the board should also be considerably stronger than stock. When I get it, I plan to take some pictures as well as the other typical mods I made to my boat so I can post them on this site.

Cheers,

[Frank C]

Leon, I'm not sure how those teflon strips affect the board's construction ... but why not full-length?

That way you can choose to sail with the board half-deployed, or quarter-deployed, etc.

[James V]

Thanks Richard - As I recall, The Factories promo mentioned that none of the fiberglass was sprayed and it was implied that the entire boat all was mat. I guess this is wrong just like there "is no wood in the boat". What I was trying to determin - is there a way to tell if my dagger board is defective before it breaks. Any thoughts?

[Terry]

I wonder if the DB trunk specs have changed from the 03-04 models to the 06 models? If Delvi's new DB is a success and others are interested all we have to do is order the one Delvi got from the same supplier and voila, new DB. Is it really going to be that easy? If so, I am sure there is a potential market for sales.

[Scott]

In the interest of protecting your hull I would rethink strengthening your board as it would be wise to have it break before the hull does in impact conditions.

[NautiMoments]

I agree with you Scott. I would rather have the board break than the hull. Now since the board has so much clearance in the trunk you could add a layer of mat & glass to the leading and trailing edges. How about adding some thin UHMW to the fore and aft edges of the trunk? Harder to do but might stop damage.

[James V]

Why not reinforce the trunck inside the cabin with some SS banding?

[delevi]

Joel is hoping to make this DB a production item. I'm the guinea pig, so I'm getting a good price. I doubt the trunk would bust before the board. Hopefully, both are strong enough to withstand a grounding without breaking. The only danger I see if the board is 1/2 down and hits something. This will apply force to the weaker portion of the trunk, the upper portion. The lower portion is very strong. If something had to give, I would hope it's the board, but unless someone was to power at high speed w/board down.... which as you all know is a big no-no, I don't see much risk. Hitting an object with the keel under sail shouldn't, in theory, cause either the keel or boat to break. Of course, if you hit sharp rocks with your hull Won't matter if your keel is up or down.

Frank,
I think the UHMW strips may cause turbulence to the water foil if all the way through the board's length. This is why theyre only going into the top portion. Ill inquire w/ Joel, however. I don't think it's too late to make the change if it won't affect performance.... may affect the price, however Thanks for bringing this to my attention.