Would you buy a used Macgregor without a test sail first?

[Jeff S]

I purchased mine w/o a test sail. I have been happy with the boat. There were a few minor things- but I think Paul S had more issues with his new boat (of course with a new boat there are greater expectations). My #1 biggest problem is with the trailer- by FAR. It had rust inside the square tongue that led to complete replacement of the whole forward section of the trailer. If the trailer is not in good shape you will pay a lot keeping it up or you will pay even more replacing it. This can be many hundreds to thousands. While you could find damage in the boat that could cost that much it would be pretty evident from even a cursory inspection. The motor and trailer. The boat itself is a far better product than the trailer and I would have more confidence in that. Even the chain plate leaks are pretty minor. I had a tiny water ballast seepage (after 2 years of ownership) that was easily fixed with some good epoxy relatively cheaply. The trailer has cost me almost a grand in repairs and I still plan to add a second axle for about another grand.

Motors can vary a lot in their condition based on treatment also. With a classic though the motor is less of an investment than the motor sailors.

A surveyor is a good idea, but again I think any thing they find on the boat (rigging, leaks, etc) will be less than the potential problems with the trailer. Just my experience with rebuilding Frankenstein (my trailer)- the galvanized/POR-15'd steel hybrid I have created.

Jeff S

[Tom Root]

My #1 biggest problem is with the trailer- by FAR. It had rust inside the square tongue that led to complete replacement of the whole forward section of the trailer. If the trailer is not in good shape you will pay a lot keeping it up or you will pay even more replacing it. This can be many hundreds to thousands.
Jeff S

Very good point....I had a tongue fail, and cause damage back in the 80's. It was on my 1st Mac... a 1973 Venture 224, and the PO had used fiberglass and cleverly disguised a potential lethal problem.

It broke on a surface street at about 10 MPH, had it been much faster, and I not taken the least path of reistance, ( I hit the brakes, and caused +-$2K damage to my 2 month old van) I could have wiped out a whole row of Mercedes and Cadillacs, at a much greater loss!

If you folks haven't done it yet, drill a 1/2" hole in the end, and bottom of that box steel tongue soon, or you may have the same dilhema some day...trust me....because All Mac OEM trailers have this potential problem!

BTW, I really didn't need a test sail when I got my X boat! But, when I called and found out he was taking it out for to show others the next day, I called him back and said that I would take the boat, sight unseen, but since he planned anyway, I'd go out, just so I could rig it myself with him supervising.

He was a great seller, honest, and I felt bad simply because circumstances precipitated the sale of a one year old boat! Sometimes, gut feelings about the sellers sincerity is all that is needed for me!

One thing I'd mention, is if you are buying a new boat, and an extended warranty is available, get it so you don't suffer the same grief I am right now! I inquired, but did not persue the issue, but did desire to have the PO apply before the 2 year period, from new, deadline in my case for the 6 year warranty as was possible in my case! I will now find out if the additional $300.00, I didn't spend would have been worth it! My loss now, and next week I find out just how much loss on my Suzuki!

[waternwaves]

I looked at so many x boats when I purchased mine....... drove thousands of miles to visit these trailer queens, and all were in better shape than any of the wet boats I checked.

But I had the advantage of previously sailing and checking out S's and X's

Ultimately,

The most expensive thing on a mac is the motor.....

and most peoples gripes are centered on that particular element of the mac.

If its not your first boat, and you have already been on one, probably don't need to get her fins wet......... to know if she is sound.



JMHO

[Catigale]

A 9.9 HP will run you about 2k, so even if the motor is trash thats the limit on that cost of course. If you dont like the look of a motor, ask for 2k off the price!!

[heysteveh]

The asking price is $5,500 and stated to be in "excellent" condition.

I hope it looks as good as it sounds!!!

STeve

If you have to travel any distance to see this boat, get pictures first. I traveled from Wisconsin to Kansas to look at a boat described in excellent condition and always stored inside. When I got there I discovered the boat was weathered and warn. I went home boatless.

[aya16]

see if he has some recent pixs of the boat in the water like last summer..That will tell you if they used it much. If they used it often then you can be almost sure its maintained ok.

Look at the wheel bearing caps, is there fresh greese ozzzing out? or are they dry? if the tires are pumped up to normal also can tell alot. Look at the little things. Are the sails covered or off? Tires also give a clue worn tires that dont have cracks in the side wall tell you its been used and not sitting alot. any wood work that has been revarnished is good because if they did that then they probably looked after the rest of the boat.

Rust on the trailer wont tell you a whole lot as they all rust in time. Rust on the wheels also dont say a lot

look at the wires are they in good shape or are they draped down in the bilge getting wet all the time?

check the oil in the outboard is it clean? Bring some tools pull the plugs and see if they are tan not oily.

smell the gas does it smell like varnish? if it does dont even try to start it till you get new gas.

Most people will clean up the boat before they sell so being clean wont tell alot, knock on the hull see if there is any dead spots , walk on the deck see if it feels spongy Those are bad signs. Stress cracks around the gelcoat isnt bad all boats get them. Thump around the bottom it should sound solid.

When was the last time it was registered? If a long time then they havent used it probably.

Look at their car/house does it match the boat in up keep.


then go for a test sail if you like what you see. 5500 is ok price but not if it cost 10000 to bring it up to snuff.

There isnt a whole lot you can do with a soft hull or deck so pass if they are soft. The engine can be replaced like someone said for around 2 grand. Good boat bad engine 3000???? my thinking

winter/spring is the best time to buy not a good time to sell.

[Catigale]

Thats a decent price if all the stuff on that list is in usable shape..

Also, if it is a fresh water boat a lot of the corrosion concerns go away.

You wont get into a 26 foot sail boat for less than this unless a real bargain comes your way imho. Even if the motor is trashed and you spend 2k for a new one, you will be under 10k

I think a soft deck or hull damage is the only thing that could stop this one.

[Chip Hindes]

The only holdup at this point is that the owner says the lake where he has the boat doesn't open it's boat ramp until May

.

I'm going to be somewhat of a jerk here (what else is new?) You need to be very careful about this one. I don't know what lake this guy sails at, that "the" ramp is closed, but this is a pretty poor excuse and IMO makes the whole transaction suspect.

Within 45 minutes of Scranton is Lake Wallenpaupack; except for Lake Erie probably the premier sailing lake in PA (at least until all the power boats come out later in the summer). It's almost certainly the largest (again except Erie). Although the public ramps (there are at least three I'm aware of, though they're technically not public, they belong to Pennsylvania Power and Light, which owns the Lake) might still be closed, there are several marinas and by this time of year one of them is bound to have an open, functional ramp. The only question I can think of is whether the ice is gone yet. Check the marina cam at this place, it appears the ice is gone; a call to this or one of the other marinas can confirm the lake condition and availability of ramps.

If the seller's unwilling to travel 45 minutes after you've come all the way from Michigan, look for another boat.

[Tom Root]

That Cam is cool, it loaded much faster than ANY cam I have tried, as yet!

The Key West Cams are my favorite!

It says, under the cam, as of right now, they are experiencing Freezing Rain?

[cuisto]

I have bought 3 sail boats and 1 aluminum fishing boat and 1 motor boat over the years. No test cruise on any of them..
All of them have been bought in the winter when the market here in Canada is slow..impossible to test and not many people looking to spend the time in the cold and snow to look. I have found this to provide for significant reductions in price. I have gone in knowing what I was looking for, how much risk I was willing to accept etc.
HAVE NEVER YET BEEN DISAPPOINTED...
All have been private sales, but verbal assurances were offered as to the condition and I always knew where to find them if unsatisfied...not that I could hold them to something .

Have been lucky!

[aya16]

I dont know Chip, If I was selling a sailboat in good shape for a decent price Im not sure I would want to take it out for a test ride. My thinking would be 10-15 test rides before I sold it. I think If I knew the boat was sound the engine ran fine the last time I used it and I was selling for a cheap price My thinking for the new buyers would be take it or leave it.
That said I also would, If I was sure the boat was in good shape tell new buyers that if they need help with anything to let me know. I would also point out it was a used boat and dont expect a new boat from it. The battery depending on how old may need to be replaced soon and I wouldnt want the new owner calling me six months later telling me I owe them a battery. Things like that. I just sold a boat as is in good condition for a good price with out a test drive, I did tell the guy Im at MDR most every weekend and if they wanted me to take them out in their new old boat I would be more then happy to go with them if they brought it out there. This was a power boat with an expensive outboard that I ran for them when they came to look at it. They took my word for the shape of the engine, I did tell them the water pump would need to be changed soon and offered to do it if they bought the parts. Now if they used the boat for a couple years without changing it, and burned the engine up
I dont think they should come to me .


By the way I havent heard from your friends that wanted help with the sailboat out here. Im still up for it. Maybe you can come out here and we will all get together for a sail.....

[Chip Hindes]

Buying after the end of sailing season or during the winter it's a buyer's market, you would expect that you might not to be able to test sail, and as a buyer you would also expect an end of season/ winter discount based on the fact you won't be able to test sail it or use the boat for at least several months. One of the guys at our marina who's been trying to sell his boat for awhile, last fall advertized a $1000 discount off the original price to anybody who'd buy his boat before he had to put it in storage in October.

It's just like cars. Nobody (at least here in the Northeast) buys a convertible in December.

Right now is prime boat selling season. That makes it a seller's market, but any seller who tells you, in effect, "Take it without a test sail or leave it," and offers some lame ass excuse why you can't put it in the water is either truly without a clue or hiding something.

Regarding the weather, we in the NE had some beautiful weather last week, but the last couple of days have been cool, some rain and even snow in the higher elevations, I imagine including Lake Wallenpaupack which is 1200 feet.

Checking the weather in Hawley, PA (right next to the Lake) this Saturday is supposed to be high 39 and showers, winds 7mph, frankly miserable sailing weather; Sunday a bit better, sunny, high 50, winds 9mph.

It's one thing if the weather doesn't cooperate; nobody can control that and you could get that any time during the year. Quite another telling you the ramps are closed.

[Chip Hindes]

My thinking would be 10-15 test rides before I sold it.

In order for that thinking to make sense, you've also got to suppose that each buyer is going average 10-15 test sails before he decides which boat to buy. I don't think so.

Plus, we are not talking about a guy who sees a sign on the boat in your yard and knocks on your door asking for a test sail. We're talking about a guy who is about to travel, what, 700-800 miles to look at your boat. What does it take to prove he's damn serious and earn him a test sail? [/quote]

[Helaku]

I would not buy a car that I was told I could not drive, no matter how nice it looked. Different strokes.....

[heysteveh]

Thanks all for sharing your experiences and knowledge!! It has been very helpful. This will be my first boat. I have done research and am creating a list of things to look for on the boat.

I talked to the owner and, weather permitting , we should be able to test sail at a nearby lake where there is a ramp even though the dock might not be set up yet.

Here is a description of the boat ('93 Mac 26S, $5,500) as my earlier post was accidently deleted:

Danforth 13 lb primary anchor with 20 ft chain and 200 ft 3 strand nylon rode. 7 lb Danforth lunch hook. Miscellaneous dock lines, snubbers, fenders and telescoping boathook. Deep cycle battery with battery tender/charger, updated fused electrical panel, cigar lighter socket. Uni-Solar flexible solar panel keeps battery charged in addition to alternator on Honda 7.5, 4 stroke outboard. VHF radio with remote speaker and masthead mounted antenna. Safety equipment includes Type IV horseshoe buoy, 2 self-inflating PFD's, 4 regular PFD's and required coast guard safety package. Rule 360 gph auto/manual, switchable bilge pump.

Two stainless steel day/night solar powered vents, 1 intake, 1 exhaust. Lines led aft thru triple block, organizer and rope clutch. Sail Care MK III lazy jack system. Caframo 12v 2 speed fan. Windex 15 wind indicator. Tiller tamer and tiller extension. Compass and external lighted digital depth, knot and water temp instruments in cockpit. Internal knot meter in cabin. Boom tent and bimini. Custom hatch and companionway screens.

This boat is in excellent condition. Jib, main, 150 genoa and storm sails all in excellent condition. Boat has been winter stored indoors, covered since new. Heavy duty winter cover. Fresh water only. Trailer is in very good condition. Honda 7.5 HP, 4 stroke engine has had all scheduled maintenance and is in excellent condition.

I hope it is as nice as it sounds!!! I leave Friday afternoon, will look at the boat Saturday (near Scranton, PA). Pull it home Sunday

Steve