Michigan/Piranha/Solas Props on Suzuki DF50, 26M

Moe · Post by **Moe** » Sat May 06, 2006 11:58 am

Jack, contact info on the way to you via email.

--
Moe

aya16 · Post by **aya16** » Sat May 06, 2006 7:26 pm

I guess Ill move the microwave and some junk off the V berth tomorrow
to the back. No wait that would mess up the test.
I also found that there are a zillion other props out there to try. Maybe we will be in the ball park Sunday. Robert I copied your post and will use it
for guidence.
I have used the 13 suz prop for two years and didnt much care about the
way it worked because I sail almost all the time. When Mark wanted better performance I thought I would just use whatever he ended up with.
But seeing all the diff props available This was a bigger task than first thought.

What we are doing now is trying to pull a couple more knots out of the
DF50 I think it can be done for Mark anyway because he is loaded lighter.
But for me ( you know how it goes) all that junk on my boat is a must and
it would ruin my whole trip if I needed something and I took it out a week before. Includeing the 14 cans of dog food, that you can buy anywhere...
Not to mention the Tv sat. box 200 dvd's the fridge two
anchors and chain, 'cooler enough stuff to wear to last a year, three pairs of new shoes for two 6pair, 24 pack cokes and spare tools. You see I need all that stuff. Plus its great to open a bin and say wow I forgot I put that on the boat.
I was thinking of lightning up a bit by getting a thinner girlfriend.
but its safer to just get an e-tech 90, white of course....

Mark Karagianis · Post by **Mark Karagianis** » Mon May 08, 2006 2:14 pm

To All: Thanks for your responses. AYA16 and I met and tested the two props yesterday, and right away I learned that the same prop that I tested on his boat "A Gust A" performed much better on my boat.

I had full tanks, mast (down) and all paraphernalia aboard and another 5-gal tank in the center of the boat. The runs were made into a 5-7 kt wind. The props were changed back-to-back, first with completely empty ballast, then with full. And it's really hard changing the prop in the water with a raft by yourself! The Coast Guard dispatched a rescue boat to investigate a "dismasted sailboat, drifting close to shore, with somone working on the engine"! Mike was away giving a demo ride on his boat for a bottle of Two Buck Chuck. (You need to set your sights higher, dude.)

The Michigan 3 x 11.75 x 11-pitch on Mike's boat did 13.6 kts empty @ 5,600 rpm. On "Definite Addiction" I did 15.5 kts @ 5,800.

Full, same story, Mike's did 9.7 kts @ 5,300; mine 12 kts @ 5,800. That's how much more stuff Mike has in his boat, I guess. And I don't think that Mike got all of the water out of his ballast - mine was sealed.

The Pirahna 3 x 12 (actually measures 11.75) x 11 was great at empty ballast, I did 16.6 kts (19 mph) and saw 17.8 with wind at 3/4s rear. This duplicates what Robert posted. But with full ballast? 11.5 kts @ 6,500 rpm. And when I was going fast, no spray came into the boat. When we did our Catalina trip in March, with a loaded boat and full ballast and a 15 kt crosswind & swells, we were drowning in the back of the cockpit.

So the responses are right, with any load you need a big-eared prop. As my goal is to be able to go 14 kts loaded, it looks like from what Robert posted that I'll have to try the Suzuki 10 or 11-pitch, or the Solas 3x12.25x9 stainless.

I can't afford to swap out my 9-month old engine, otherwise Mike's right, there's no substitute for horsepower.

Mark

aya16 · Post by **aya16** » Mon May 08, 2006 2:28 pm

It was a good day wasnt it. you forgot to add that My crew and boat was able to practice man overboard drill with all the stuff that flew off your boat from going so fast.

My prop with 3 on board was able to reach 11.5 mph with full ballast at 5500 rpm. didnt empty it but before was able to do 17mph without all the pesky water. so Im going to an 11 suzuki and keep my 13 for a spare.

Tell Diane we miss her. and wish you could have stayed longer.
Scott and Jamie are going to buy a boat so one more fun couple to join us.
and where is Rick and molly? they dont love us anymore?

Frank C · Post by **Frank C** » Mon May 08, 2006 4:42 pm

It's a bit strange, Mark, that your first prop tested empty ballast to a max 5800 RPMs, and then same max 5800 RPMs with full ballast. Usually you'll lose about 500 rpms of engine speed with full ballast, as happened with Mike's test ???

I'll be surprised if any prop changes the tendency for spray into the cockpit ... that's still going to happen when you find the same orientation of speed, wind direction and swell direction - varies a lot.

Finally, I think you might send them an email of those results, and get a word of advice from Piranha. They won't be able to fix it, but they'll give you a real explanation of why their prop suffers more with full ballast. It might also yield their suggestion of a different prop.

aya16 · Post by **aya16** » Mon May 08, 2006 4:57 pm

Frank my guess is the pir flexes when under load

They Theirs · Post by **They Theirs** » Mon May 08, 2006 6:16 pm

Robert on DF50 Prop 1

DF50 Recommended Propeller Advice

Suzuki Propeller for DF50

Suzuki DF50 Prop Tests

Mark Prouty · Post by **Mark Prouty** » Tue May 09, 2006 12:11 pm

Just a thought. Probably not relevant in the Mac environment ...

I wore my Piranah prop blades down to nubs in a very sandy river environment on my outboard motor boat. I use aluminum now. I tried stainless steel once and it destroyed my lower unit - no give.

Course I beat the hull out of that boat.

Terry · Post by **Terry** » Tue May 09, 2006 1:42 pm

Mark Karagianis wrote:

So the responses are right, with any load you need a big-eared prop. As my goal is to be able to go 14 kts loaded, it looks like from what Robert posted that I'll have to try the Suzuki 10 or 11-pitch, or the Solas 3x12.25x9 stainless.

Mark Prouty wrote:

I tried stainless steel once and it destroyed my lower unit - no give.

The Solas "New Saturn" is a stainless steel cupped 3 blade with a larger blade area that meets the dog ear criteria, I was thinking of getting one for my Honda (2.09:1 gear ratio) perhaps a 3 X 12 X 9, but now wonder if it is not a good idea to use SS. What are others experience with SS?

Frank C · Post by **Frank C** » Tue May 09, 2006 2:38 pm

I bought a 3x14x11 Solas SS prop to try on my Suzuki 60, but just lights it up
like burn-outs at the drag-strip. I'd need to cup it to use it, but look at the disadvantages:

Cost of cupping ($65);
It's a thief-magnet (add $45 for prop-lock);
It adds significant weight at worst place;
It adds potential drive issues that Mark mentioned.
It was very costly to begin with ($330+).

I might just sell it on eBay, "Brand new stainless prop, used once."

I really want to find a 4-bladed prop at about 13-pitch. More blade surface for pushing these boats, and we don't go fast enough to suffer much top-end drag penalty. And, the 4th blade adds immeasurable, silky-smoothness to your motoring, since they're much easier to balance. As they describe for pickups - "... once you've had one you'll never be without."

Bobby T.-26X #4767 · Post by **Bobby T.-26X #4767** » Tue May 09, 2006 4:11 pm

Frank C wrote: As they describe for pickups - "... once you've had one you'll never be without."

that's what they say about chunky peanut butter vs. smooth...
those nasty sites on the web also use that quote quite a bit.

however, back to the thread...
i'm staying with aluminum. i can buy 3 for the price of one stainless.
yet, even though i'm very happy with my current prop, this 4 blade talk has got me thinkin'.
now i gotta do some research.

Bob T.
"DaBob"
'02X w/ '04 90-TLDI

Mark Karagianis · Post by **Mark Karagianis** » Mon May 15, 2006 1:18 pm

The latest - Piranha is shipping me 13-pitch blades, because I am revving so high with the 9-pitch (6,800) and the 11-pitch (6,500). Michael at Piranha says that their 13-pitch blades are slightly larger, and so this should bring the rpm down to 6,000 and the speed up 1-2 knots. I don't think that anyone has posted a test of this 13-pitch blade with a Mac. It seems like going the wrong way, though, because of the dismal results with the stock prop (13) and the Michigan 13. I should get this today and I will test it on the way to Catalina this weekend.

Yesterday I powered with 6 crew aboard and full tanks + ballast using the Michigan: 9 kts @ 4,900. When I emptied the ballast while under power I could feel an immediate change is attitude (the stern came up) and the speed climbed to 12.5 kts @5,500.

We were floating around having Mother's Day lunch 2 miles off the Malibu Pier when a giant (6-7' diameter!) sea turtle swam by. Really amazing, I've never seen one so large. Then we sailed back to MDR on a broad reach and now 2 more people that "hated boats" love Macs.

Mark

aya16 · Post by **aya16** » Mon May 15, 2006 2:33 pm

On a side note Jamie and Scott (the couple that went out on my boat last week) just pulled the trigger and bought a white hulled Mac from Inmon Sunday. Thier boat will be ready in ten days. I want to welcome them to our clan.

Mark I want to try your pir. 13 when you get it ok? Scott Marlo cant you keep two boats? or I guess you can get a davit and hang my Mac from your new mega sailboat.

The conditions here in SOcal are perfect now for getting out and getting some spray. Ill be going to the Boat today to grab some junk off it for my upcoming trip. Im not taking the Mac this year, Im taking our (now FULLY RESTORED) Montgomery I spent three weeks sanding and refinishing teak
cleaning sails all new lines, led aft of course, adding new hardwhare brass oar locks and a nice new pair of oars. never did this before and it came out sweet.

They Theirs · Post by **They Theirs** » Mon May 15, 2006 5:28 pm

I believe Aya16 pulled Montys Piranha from El Alameim with that Ford and the 8th Army!.

Divecoz · Post by **Divecoz** » Mon May 15, 2006 5:48 pm

TT is that a 65 Ford Falcon Ranchero pulling the Mon. 15 ?

MacGregorSailors.com

MacGregorSailors.com

Michigan/Piranha/Solas Props on Suzuki DF50, 26M

TT is that ???