Wheel Bearings

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Figured I better change out the bearings and seals before our drive to the far north this summer. I have looked but I can't seem to find what bearing and seal type and size to buy anywhere.

What would be the correct sizes for my stock 1996 trailer?

Also I see that Bearing Buddy has a Spindle Seal product that looks to add an extra O ring at the inside seal. I like to keep my bearing buddies full of grease and have always paid the price of getting grease spray on the hull from the back seal. Anybody tried using this additional seal to reduce the spray?

I am also going to do a wheel tire upgrade. I have the biggest 14" 1870# radials right now but I want to go to the 15x6 wheels with the ST22575D15 2150# tires. I'm actually thinking of going back to the bias ply tires with their stiffer side walls which help reduce sway even more. I also think it will be easier on the mast rig and boat. My current radials get quite a bit of bounce. Any thoughts? I can also get the same size tire in a radial.

I also see that I can get a 6 ply tire with a load range C 2150# or the same size tire with 8 plys and a load range D 2540#. The thing is the 15x6 wheels only have a load rating of 2150#. Any reason I can't use the 8 plys for a little extra tire insurance even though technically the wheels can't handle the full load?

[LCB]

Duane,

The only tire trouble I had had, (25,000 miles), was with radial ply tires. Three blowouts using Carlisle bias ply trailer tires. I think that your 15 idea is best.

Russ

[Kelly Somers]

Duane

I saved this from the Sailnet site:

I saved this from the list last year, haven't checked to see if it's correct.
Oil Seal - 470361
Inner Bearing 68149
Inner Bearing Race 68111
Outer Bearing 44649
Outer Bearing Race 44610
Spindle Inner Dia. 1 7/8 in

[craiglaforce]

LCB,
You confused me. (Easy to do). Were your blowouts with radials or bias plys? The post seems to say both things, that you had problems with radials and had 3 blowouts with Carlyle bias plys.

Thanks

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Well that gets me closer, but I'm still confused.

Bearing Kits

Looks like it would be kit 8,9,or 10 by the bearing part numbers, but I can't tell which seals match. I don't see a 1.875" ID seal.

HELP?

[LCB]

craiglaforce

Sorry, meant trouble with bias ply. To much heat build up.

Russ

[Don T]

Duane:
I posted the numbers on the old board but since they are gone I searched my receipt archives and here's what I found. (1995 trailer)

A4 outer bearing
A17 inner
46-10-19 Dexter seal

These I procured from my local auto parts store, except for the dexter seals which I got from Curtis Trailers. I believe the A17 is mated to 2 different races so you will need the number off the inner race.

I found HD 5 hole 15" rims rated at 2150lbs. The weekness is in the mounting. 6 hole rims have a higher rating when made from the same materials because they are held to the hub better. If you want extra margin use a 5 hole ring under the lugs to help clamp the wheel and reduce flex. I found the 15" radials to tow fine. I pump them up to the max pressure (65 psi) to reduce bounce.

[Captain Steve]

I bought new 14" radials last summer to do the tow to the San Juans. I experimented with the psi and noticed that they required around 60 psi for the best towing. Got the tires at WM mounted on white spoke rims. THey frequently have a 15% off sale on tires.

[LCB]

I put over 15,000 miles on 14" radials, a lot of it in Fla. and Texas no problems 60psi is good.

Russ

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Interesting. My 14" radials say "Max load 1870lbs at 50 psi" on the sidewall. I assumed that 50 psi was the max I could put in. Is this what your's say? Is it OK to go up to 60psi with these tires? Maybe that would give them that little bit more stiffness. Does their load capacity decrease as you go to the higher pressure?

I still wouldn't gain that extra weight capacity margin, but might be able to take out the bounce and that slightly over loaded look. 3740# plus 300# on the tounge gives me 4040# which should be enough.

Now I can't decide whether to spend the $250. In a way I may still do the 15" wheels as it will let me load more stuff ahead of time in the boat rather than keep all the coolers, bags, dinghy, etc in the back of the suburban.

[LCB]

Duane,

Heat buildup will be the major problem for your tires. Most of your trips in Washington will be much cooler conditions then here in Texas, 50psi should be fine. However if you are going to buy new tires I would suggest you go to the 15 wheels. You will have to extend the spring hanger a bit to raise the boat a couple of inches but that is no problem.

I think people should make their own decisions according to what is comfortable to them, and certainly I would not criticize a person for being cautious. However I have towed my Mac from Washington, (State) to the Florida Keys twice, from Washington to the Texas Gulf Coast, (the third coast, Redneck Riviera), three times, hither and yon on I-5. All on 14 tires, single axel. The only trouble I have had is when I tried to use bias ply tires.

One thing very, very, very, important, check, and tighten the lug nuts OFTEN!

Russ

[Chip Hindes]

I'm actually thinking of going back to the bias ply tires with their stiffer side walls which help reduce sway even more

For fun I did a Google search on this and there is apparently no agreement. As a radial tire is side-loaded, the flexible sidewalls allow more of the contact patch to remain in contact with the road. As you side-load a bias tire, the stiffer sidewalls cause the tread to roll, the contact patch lifts off the road, and the tire in effect skids sideways. Radial tires are known to get better traction and handling because of this characteristic, better gas mileage, longer life, better ride. This is why we switched over to radials on passenger cards years ago, but obviously a trailer is not a car, so there are still multiple schools of thought. I found testimonials about less sway for both constructions. For most, unless you do a lot of long distance trailering, the tires are liable to succumb to dry rot long before they wear out, so the improved gas mileage and longer life is a moot point.

My stock bias tires are worn excessively on the outer edges. It looks like overinflation damage, but I believe it's really a characteristic of bias tires.

Bias tires are a few bucks cheaper, but not enough to make it a major factor. They are more resistant to puncture and sidewall damage, which could be important on the right side tires which spend so much of their lives being close to, or over the edge (of the road, that is ) Sidewall damage on bias tires can usually be easilly repaired with a plug. Contrary to popular myth, sidewall damage on radials can frequently be repaired as well, but they can't be plugged so the repair costs more.

I wonder if some of the resistance to radials on trailers has more to do with the heavy truck/ semitrailer bunch. These people resisted the switch to radials for many years because of both initial cost and the fact that a heavy truck tire carcass is retreaded several times in its life; and many of the retreaders couldn't do radials. I believe some of them are beggining to switch as well. I would guess the better gas mileage and longer life pays for the purchase, and retreaders can now do radials.

Interesting. My 14" radials say "Max load 1870lbs at 50 psi" on the sidewall. I assumed that 50 psi was the max I could put in. Is this what your's say? Is it OK to go up to 60psi with these tires? Maybe that would give them that little bit more stiffness. Does their load capacity decrease as you go to the higher pressure?

Tire capacity increases with increased inflation pressure, up to the maximum pressure listed on the tire sidewall. You can run the maximum inflation pressure, or you can run lower pressure for somewhat reduced capacity and a softer ride. Note this is cold inflation pressure. If you check them on a hot day after running at high speed, internally generated heat can increase this by as much as 10 psi, but this is part of the design, so don't reduce pressure to compensate.

On the other hand, running anything higher than the maximum cold inflation pressure on the sidewall, is to put it politely, not prudent. The tire, and in many cases the wheel, is simply not designed to handle it. The amount of potential energy stored in any inflated tire is tremendous, and by exceeding the max you're not only increasing the amount of energy stored, you're inviting a catastrophic failure. You would be amazed at the amolunt of damage and exploding tire can do. If one of these goes, it's liable to take the fender and part of the side of the boat with it.

BTW, I still think two axles is the best overall solution, but I understand why some don't agree. I'll have further thoughts on the matter after making the trip to FL again this year, last year with one axle, this year with two.

[Jack O'Brien]

I am not a tire expert. I know more about manufacturing them than the usage of them. However, a couple points I think I know about and want to clarify.

I recently talked with two boat trailer agents whose manufacturers do not mount radial tire, only bias. I don't know why.

"...radials get better gas mileage and longer life..." That is true. The reason is the heavy, load bearing PLY cords of a bias tire run from bead to bead at much more of an angle and PANTOGRAPH much more than the cords of a radial tire which run much straighter from bead to bead. And a radial has a couple plies of belt, usually steel or stiff synthetic cord, under the tread area. The combination reduces tread "squirm" as the rubber meets the road and gives better mileage of gas and tread.

Generally, wear at both edges of a tire means underinflation. Wear in the center means overinflation. Uneven wear can be caused by several things.

"Sidewall damage can be repaired on bias tires with plugs and radial sidewalls can be repaired but not with plugs."

A simple puncture, with minimal cord damage, IN THE TREAD AREA of either tire can be sealed with a plug, although some companies have stopped using plugs because of legal liability due to some failures. I've never known of any reputable repair shop to do sidewall repairs with plugs because of the greater flexing in the sidewall area - however, for a simple puncture it may work ok. More likely is a patch on the inside of the tire.

Radial tires probably have only two body plies in the sidewall and the sidewalls flex much more than bias ply tires, which probably have four body plies, or possibly six. This is another reason plugs are not used in radial sidewall repairs.

If there is any significant body cord damage, i.e. too many cords damaged/cut, a plug won't work for long and even a fabric reinforced patch on the inside is not adviseable if the damage is too great.

The 18-wheelers love radials because of lower cost per mile overall for tire life and fuel mileage. Retreading is more difficult as the radial tire does not want to expand inside the retread vulcanizing mold as easily as a bias tire expands. Many retreads are pre-vulcanized and cemented to the old carcass, after it has been ground down to the right shape and size.

[Chip Hindes]

Generally, wear at both edges of a tire means underinflation

Absolutely. You're supposed to figure out what I meant, not what I said.

I've never known of any reputable repair shop to do sidewall repairs with plugs because of the greater flexing in the sidewall area - however, for a simple puncture it may work ok.

You're probably too young to remember that sidewall repairs with plugs were fairly common in the days when all tires were bias. (Yeehah! ). You're also probably right that most tire shops won't plug a sidewall these days, but then again, how many bias tires do they see anymore? There are also many shops who will insist that a radial tire with sidewall damage can't be repaired: they're either morons or are just trying to sell you a new tire.

I understoood the reason many retreaders originally did not do radials is that they required much more expensive segmented molds, rather than the two piece donut molds of the bias tires.

[Jack O'Brien]

Chip Hindes wrote:

"You're probably too young to remember...."

Hey Chip - flattery will get you anywhere!

You're right. Since the belt under the tread on radials prevents the tread from expanding into the mold, the molds need to close on the tire's tread, hence moveable mold segments, not just a two-piece clamshell mold.

Sidewall repairs to a radial are dangerous because of the thinness and the flexing. Success depends on size/type/location of damage, tire construction and how repair is done.