Discouraged Going Up Wind, Close hauled, Cannot Point

[maddmike]

Racing or Crusing aside; Using a sailing instructor to give you tactical advise and sheet handling know-how on the course is a good idea, but having them show you how to best tune and handle a MAC is a losing proposition. I have on a number of occasion had some of the best racing sailors in the world on my boat (at least the ones who were not so anti-Mac that they refused to be seen on the boat). In each and every case, I was the one who eventually ended up showing them how to trim, tune and handle the boat, not the other way around as one would expect. On any other keel boat in the world they would have made me look like a complete novice, but because of the unique characteristics of the 26X there is a totally different set of skills that come into play mand most of those come from spending lots of time sailing the thing. While, there may not be any (or many) MAC instructors out there now, I suspect that because of the popularity of the boat over the past few years you will soon find instructors and better teaching materials available, through sites like this one or through experienced local dealers. MM

[Richard O'Brien]

Well add another $ 1,000 to the cost of my MAC, thats in USD.

I just ordered the IDA High Performance Rudders and Daggerboard.

I'll be tuning my rig tomorrow, thanks for all your advice...

Ed Radonic

Ed, Having added my new rudders this week (haven't sailed them yet), I'm pretty sure that I'll have to add cam cleats and fiddle blocks to take up the extra weight, as they are very difficult to lift and cleat. I'll bet that goes double for the Idasailor daggerboard? also Joel doesn't predrill the stops which is what Leon was pointing out? I just aligned mine with the trailing edge of the originals, and marked them thru the old holes??

[normo]

deacm:

The 2006 US Sailing PHRF Book lists the following for the 26X. The first column is the PHRF Fleet and the second column is the PHRF number.

Alum Creek 240
Gulf PHRF 222
Manitoba 240
Mid Atlantic 216
Narragansett Bay 216
No. California 222
North Carolina 273
So. California 216
West Florida 216

My club has assigned my 26X a 305 and views it as a gift. The Venture Club of SanDiego assigns the 26X a 359 PHRF. It was derived by accumulating results of many races with the earlier model 26S/D/? water ballasted boats and calculating what 26X rating would be needed to be competitive. They switched boats, skippers and crew to derive these results. Similar to the way Portsmouth Yardstick ratings are developed.

A member in our club also happens to be an official US Sailing PHRF Committee member. I have given him an earful on these ridiculous ratings and told him I wanted to appeal the Mac rating to US Sailing. I also told him I thought US Sailing was doing a sloppy job for printing these dumber than dumb results. Unlike me, he is always the perfect gentleman and responded that the appeal process is complicated blah, blah, blah and we should seek some other remedy. More later.

A 180 rating is about the same as a 23 foot Sonar or J22. A Mac beating a Sonar or J22 - PLEASE HELP, I can't stop laughing. I also recall a Mac owner reporting he is doing well with a 240 PHRF. I would sure like to see the quality of the competition.

Assuming your racing fleet has some top notch boats and good skippers, I suggest you check your times and back calculate what your PHRF would have to be to put you within 30 seconds of the winner. I suspect it will be at least 350 if you have a spinnaker; higher if you don't. Then take your findings, the Venture Club results and attempt your own appeal.

Most important, don't take racing with a Powersailor seriously.

[Scott]

Most important, don't take racing with a Powersailor seriously.

Yup!!

[fsmith]

What wind range and/or course layout favor the the 26X?

[baldbaby2000]

I just got done racing LOWISA (Lake of the Woods) and was given a PHRF of 240. This is with a 100% jib, no genoa or spinnaker. The highest I've been given is 244 on Lake Granby with the same configuration and the lowest is 234 at the Leukemia Cup on Chatfield. I think with something more like a 250 I could at least come in somewhere in the middle.

Back to the thread: Another thing that I've found to help is to get weight up forward when going upwind. This gets the transom up and reduces the "giant sucking sound." During Lowisa I moved all my beer to the V berth.

You can't really set the sails like you would on a fast boat because the apparent wind on a slower boat is quite different than on a faster boat for the same point of sail. So you'll see the fast boats going on a close reach with their sails pulled in tight where on the Mac you'll have to let them out more.

[Catigale]

What wind range and/or course layout favor the the 26X?

The Mac wins every Force 0 race in my fleet

[Richard O'Brien]

You can't really set the sails like you would on a fast boat because the apparent wind on a slower boat is quite different than on a faster boat for the same point of sail. So you'll see the fast boats going on a close reach with their sails pulled in tight where on the Mac you'll have to let them out more.

Exactly what Ryan "Windquest" showed me, Daniel. Also. I've held off giving my opinion about my new Idasailor rudders, as I've only tried them in light winds so far, but now when I turn the new 18" wheel. the boat responds, even under 5 knots, so I'm optimistic. more after Wednesday.

[mtc]

Racing is just a relative term. We can certainly race our boats - against each other.

The Macs are class boats and when we talk about racing, we should talk about racing them in their class. Could you imagine us racing against a Corsair?

Hmmm. . . I tried.

Yea, I was racing, alright. The other boat was just pulling away fast, very fast.

But, I was ok with that, because I knew that if needed, I could crank-up the 60 and blast past.

Michael

[ronacarme]

in irons or heaves itself to or does not respond well to the helm, I try to do the quick and easy tweaks first..... eg given
1. 45 degrees of heel, I would reduce sail area to get heel angle down to 20 degrees or less.....
2. excessive or uncontrollable weather helm, restore balance by letting out more mainsheet, reefing the main or adding headsail area ( or on the X, pulling in the CB line a bit to move CLR aft)
3. lee helm, do the opposite...
4. at least a few knots of wind but zero or insufficient boat speed for the foils to steer the boat to wndward, try to steer off the wind to get the boat moving and restore water flow over the foils and thereby the means to steer.... if it won't go forward, try getting it to back up under sail, then steer the stern up toward the wind till the boat stops and the wind may now start to move the boat forward and restore forward steering ability.
5. a genoa sheeted outside the shrouds, you won't sail as close to windward as with a working jib sheeted inside the shrouds and so will have to build up enuf boat speed tack thru a larger angle

After 30+ years of small boat sailing, I have done and still do spend a lot of time playing with sheet trim, sail combinations, rudder and DB settings, wind speeds, courses to steer,etc, to learn by experiment and experience what I need to do to try make my boat of the moment do my bidding in the conditions of the moment. Its a never ending learning process, but fun and the reason I sail instead of simply driving around a powerboat.

Actually, I never have had to reduce mast rake on my X to make it sail OK (tho mast rake may not be an issue due to the forward weght bias resulting fom a light OB on a 2001 hull with its forward set ballast chamber).

So maybe ignore conventional sailboat "experts", learn your boat"s quirks first and look for racing success later.

Have fun

Ron

[Radonic]

Thanks for all your advise, its really good to have access to such a user group. Much better that calling the Mac Factory.

I tightened the aft and side shrouds, this solved most of my mast rake troubles. Last week I installed my new IDA sailor Dagger board and Rudders. I was out in 20 knots of wind, and able to control the round up pretty good, and sail at about 7 knots. This is pretty amazing as far as I am concerned. I stll had to ease the main if the round up got too sevear.

Yesterday, I was in a club race, to a point and back. The wind was a broad reach to the point, and I was able to sail fairly well compared to others. But on the way back, we were close hauling, and I was not able to point as close as the other boats. The others were able to sail right back with no tack, and I had to do 3 tacks. Mind you the distance back was about 4 miles.

Some have told me that my fore stay, the one my furler is attached to is way too lose. They said if I tighten it, I would be able to sail closer to the wind. But these guys don't know the MacGregor. The dealer told me last year, when I purchased the boat, it should be lose. What do you guys think. I am thinking of tightening tomorrow.

Ed

[baldbaby2000]

Ed,

Sounds like you're figuring out the boat. I also made fast improvements our first season. Keep us informed on those rudders. That may be my next purchase.

7 knots is pretty good. What did you have for sails? Full main? Jib?

You might want to consider a shroud tension gauge (LOOS and Co, inc.). to get the rigging sufficiently tight which will help reduce that forestay sag.

Here's what I found. I thought I had too much sag. With no backstay, the M (and any boat with no backstay) relies on the main itself from providing a backward force on the main. When a gust comes up, the boat heels too much, and the main is released, that force is reduced and the forestay sags; exactly the thing you don't want when one is trying to reduce heel. I sail in gusty conditions so if I always set my sails for the gusts I'd always have a reef in and wouldn't use the genoa. That's why I added the running backstays.

It's a relatively inexpensive mod. I can give you details if you want. I think I used Vectron V-12 (1900 lbs breaking strength) line. I added a shackle and attached blocks with cleats on the base of the back stanchions. Pulling on these noticably reduces the forestay sag. The down side is that one has to remember to uncleat it each time a tack or jibe is done. I have a bungee that pulls the uncleated line forward so it doesn't catch on the boom. If you don't need them you can always bungee them to the base of the mast and sail the boat in the normal configuration.

[Radonic]

When I hit 7 knots, the wind was between 15-20 knots, I had the full main and partially furled Genoa.

So should I tighten the forestay a little?

Also what do you guys think about this.

My boat has another car traveler on the deck, right next to the mast, I persume this is for job. I never used this before, But should I try my car on this, with my Genoa furled to a jib size?

Would this allow me to sail much closer to the wind?

[Scott]

I personally wouldnt leave my forestay loose. There could be differing opinions on this but I doubt it.

Your forestay in combo with your shrouds control rake. A loose forestay would lead to shock loading of the rig and early wear and potential failure of the rig.

[baldbaby2000]

Ed,

If you tighten the forestay the shrouds will also get tighter. That's why I think you should get a shroud tension gauge (LOOS). That way you can get things set right. There are other threads that talk about how tight to get the inner and outer shrouds. Don't just tighten the forestay without monitoring the tension on the shrouds or you might damage something.

I've never run the genoa sheet through a block on the jib track. If you're overpowered and are forced to partially furl the genoa this might help but if the wind allows for a full genoa I think you'd be worse off. Having said that, don't hesitate to experiment.

I have tried running the genoa sheet on the inside of the shrouds and gave up on that. It's too much hassle to switch to the outside when going offwind and I don't think anything is gained going upwind in terms of VMG (velocity made good).