Further Hull / Ballast Leak

Catigale · Post by **Catigale** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:15 am

Fiberglass is all CBR material, in my opinion.

CBR means Can Be Repaired

DOnt despair - maybe you will just need to find the right person to fix your centreboard, but it can be done...

pclark · Post by **pclark** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:02 pm

Very reassuring words, I'm new to sailing and boat ownership for that matter and I've been quite discouraged.

Kudos to the keepers of the MacGregor Sailors pages! I've "lurked" on the boards for quite sometime now; the site is great. I will show my support and I would encourage others to do so; ya' never know when you'll need these experts help. I've siphoned off knowlege all to long; now I'll "pony up."

Paul

Catigale · Post by **Catigale** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:35 pm

Somewhere deep in the archives are pictures of Chip H's hole from an anchor drag incident and also transom damage from being hit by an SUV while trailering...if you saw this damage in person it was even worse than the pix....its amazing how fiberglass can be repaired..

Max · Post by **Max** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:55 am

paul,
yes, keep us posted. I will do the same. Trailering mine back from the coast to a river next week. Going to dry it out completely, then drop in water and watch for leak to appear. Then fill ballast tanks and see what happens then.
Watch this space!
Regards
Max

Dimitri-2000X-Tampa · Post by **Dimitri-2000X-Tampa** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:55 pm

I can see how the CB pin might be able to push through the fiberglass...and there is a good chance that this part of the hull is in the ballast tank. But I would also think you would need a lateral force on the CB for this to happen. Perhaps not much of a lateral force if you figure the board is a big lever, but a lateral force none the less (or a really bad twisting force). Seems like trying to get the boat unstuck from the trailer would be a longitudinal force, not lateral. Also seems like a more likely way for this kind of damage to happen would be if your board was down and you got pushed up onto the shore sideways by wind or waves. I got my partially down board stuck on the trailer once or twice when I first got the boat and I probably tried to free it with the motor before finally backing the trailer in deeper...no damage to the fiberglass in that area when I replaced my CB bracket last year. You sure there weren't any groundings with the board down on that same day out? Afterall, you wouldn't be able to determine any damage causing leaking into the ballast tank until you pulled the boat...just a thought.

Anyway, best of luck with your analysis and please let us know what the cause is determined to be. Btw, I know that sick feeling in your gut...had it recently when my mast got snapped like a twig.

pclark · Post by **pclark** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:34 am

Thanks very much for the reply; I follow your reasoning and I think it does indeed apply to my situation. The force applied while trying to free the vessel from the trailer did appear to be (at least for the most part) along the long axis. Further, I don’t think there were any “impulse” loads to the center board. What I mean by this; things were static in that the boat was not moving but was stuck when the force of the motor thrust was applied. The boat didn’t move backwards and then hit; it was stuck from the “get go” and didn’t move at all. I’m also confident that no damage occurred during the two night anchorage; we were very secure and everything was retracted.

These are, of course, the meanderings of a desperate soul trying to make a bad problem sound better.

You mentioned in your post that the CB pivot pin area of the hull might be surrounded (or at least partially so) by ballast tank. If anyone knows for sure, please let me know. If so, just how critical is a communication (kind word for leak) between the ballast tank and the water. Assuming the pivot pin area of the CB is structurally sound and the hole is “small;” does it really make any difference? I’m conservative and always fill the ballast, motoring or not. If the tank is full and the stern ballast gate is shut and the vent plugs are in; would the ballast water “siphon” out of the tank whilst underway to any significant degree? So, other than the “aesthetics” of the situation; could such a leak be ignored? If fixing such a leak; could it be a “simple” patch job rather than an extensive, “by the book” fiberglass repair?

More questions . . . As I said earlier, I checked the starboard bilge and it was dry but I didn’t check the port bilge. I think they communicate under the forward berth but do they communicate any where else? If so, does it take a significant amount of water for it to appear in the bilge opposite the leaking one? If so, should one install two bilge pumps or will one suffice?

Sorry for the long winded post but any thoughts would be welcomed.

Hope you got the mast problem fixed. My impression is that purchasing a mast isn’t too painful; it’s all about shipping the darn things.

Handsome family by the way; ain’t kids the greatest?

Warmest regards,

Paul

Dimitri-2000X-Tampa · Post by **Dimitri-2000X-Tampa** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:10 pm

Paul,

Your first order of business will be to access what is going on. Afterall, the CB itself holds water inside it so I'm not sure how much you had coming out of there, but if it wasn't more than a gallon, who knows, maybe the problem is not as bad as you think. The CB pin rides in a hole on the hanger bracket. It is held captive by the fiberglass. As it is only a few inches from the bottom of the hull, my guess is that that position is in the ballast tank but I can't be sure. Even if you bent the board sideways, the hanger bracket would slide along the pin. However, the one I took out last year which had 5 years on it, did have grooves in it so I suppose anything is possible.

You can get under the boat with a flashlight and probably see what is going on. You could also fill the balast with a hose and see if water starts coming out.

Although a leak into the ballast tank is probably not too serious, I would still think that you want to fix it nonetheless. As many have been saying, fiberglass is easy to repair .. and in that part of the boat, it wouldn't even need to be pretty. So even if the worst is true, you can still get it fixed, probably stronger than original.

pclark · Post by **pclark** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 3:46 am

I didn't realize the CB held water; that might account for what I saw. After all, water coming from a hull is like bleeding; a little can look like a whole lot. I've also been following the keel removal thread and I find it wierd that the pivot pin has "edges" to it and had apparently shown wear on the fiberglass of a 2002 X with only 17 hours in the water. Sounds like a potential problem area.

regards

Night Sailor · Post by **Night Sailor** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:56 pm

Having the center board pivot pin do much damage to the hull slot is probably a rare occurence in normal conditions. I've not seen postings about this as a problem, and, when I removed my '98 from the slip after a year in the water, there was only a light scratch in the gelcoat of the slot on the starboard side. When I reinstalled the board after the bottom painting, I placed plastic caps (1/2" i.d., for $.59 at Walmart) over the ends of the pivot pin to alleviate any further scratching. A dab of 5200 on each end of the pin to make a round cushion would probably do also if you already have some 5200 open.

pokerrick1 · Post by **pokerrick1** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:33 pm

My dealer told me not to worry if there is water in the funnel above the ballast drain plug after I put ballast in my M because the plug is "slightly" smaller than the hole it plugs and therefore any excess water will drain down into the ballast tank - - - which makes me wonder - - - in rough seas could the ballast return to the funnel and out into the bildge???

Rick

pclark · Post by **pclark** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:49 pm

To recap; I was concerned about water “gushing” out from under the hull of my 1996 26X after a three day outing. I inspected the hull and dropped the center board and thankfully, no obvious hull breaches were found. There was quite a bit of wear where the CB pivot pin rests in the hull on the port side but no evident leak. However . . .

While under the hull I noticed a slot in the hull a couple of feet aft of the CB slot. Within the slot was a metal plate about 1.5 by 3 inches or so. This is a rubber backed plate that is pulled up against a drain hole in the ballast tank by a rod which passes through the tank up to a rubber stopper/wing nut arrangement under the companionway step next to the ballast tank vent. I always had assumed the larger rubber stopper was just another vent but when loosened, the rubber backed plate in the hull can also loosen and uncover the hull ballast drain. I purchased the 26X used and didn’t have a manual other than the one for a 2002 26X that I downloaded from this site. Perhaps this is common knowledge to most of you but it was news to me. I thought there was only the gate valve on the transom and the vent plug under the step. So what I was seeing when I pulled the boat out, was water coming out of the hull drain!

So no problem with the hull but it’s obvious that I must get a copy of the owner’s manual for the 1996 26X. I guess I can get a copy from Bill(?) at the factory.

Anyway, it pays to know your boat inside and out but thought I’d share this just in case this ballast drain under the hull is a surprise to anyone else. Does this apply to you Max?

Thanks for everyone’s input.

I’d comment on the water in the ballast vent funnel on the 26M if had info; thought I’d mention it again to keep the question “alive.”

I’ll post photos if anyone is interested.

Rich Plumb · Post by **Rich Plumb** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:43 pm

If I can make a suggestion regarding the possible leaky ballast tank.... With the boat on the trailer, you might try inserting a garden hose in the ballast fill valve. Partially fill the ballast tank with the boat on the trailer (taking care not to over fill), leaving the water in there for a while and see if you get any leakage from below...

~~~~~~~~~_/)~~~~~~~~~
Rich Plumb, "Plumb Crazy"
26X, Covington WA

pclark · Post by **pclark** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:52 am

I'll give that a try when I bring her back home.

What is the ballast drain under the hull all about? Is there a specific use for it or can I ignore it and just use the gate valve on the transom?

Max · Post by **Max** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:56 am

Paul,
No doesn't apply to me. Knew all about the ballast drain underneath.
However, am bringing her back this weekend to pursue the leak.
Will keep all posted!
Take a look at this link to the web cam where my Mac is on a swinging mooring. This is north west Wales.
www.barmouthwebcam.co.uk
Regards
Max

PS great replies everyone. It is very reassuring to know there are loads of you all willing to chip in!

Maccpt · Post by **Maccpt** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:46 pm

Would someone please explain this "rubber backed plate"... I am not aware of one...

Mods Search terms: center ballast valve, mid-hull ballast valve, early ballast vent

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Further Hull / Ballast Leak

pivot pin scratch

Ballast Plug

Ballast drain in hull?

Hull ballast drain