Batteries

[50/50]

My 26x has a single battery mounted at the pedastool. This seems to be different to most as they are normally found under the aft seat at the galley.

I would like to have two batteries, one for starting and the other as a 'house' battery. Have you any suggestions for a layout? How do I wire it so that the house battery is charged from the alternator and from shore power?

Do you have a better solution.

Have looked at the mods page but do'nt see enough detailed info.

Thanks
Gerry

[Craig LaForce]

Comments for a 26X.

I have 2 batteries and just have them hooked in parallel. Plus to plus and minus to minus. I chose this because it is simple, cheap, and by sharing the load, the discharge is less deep, and this helps them last longer.
Only drawback of this approach, is that if the battery goes flat, you are done unless you hand start the motor, have a jump start battery, or have a small generator. keeping a small charged up jump pack onboard solves this issue. If cruising much, I would have my little generator onboard anyway.


Some people use a battery combiner, which I think is basically a big diode that lets both batteries charge, but separates them when power is withdrawn from them. Downside is that the diode may introduce some voltage drop to the second battery and limit the charging a bit, plus it costs a little money for the diode, and the house battery will discharge more deeply, shortening it's life a little.

Others might use 3 simple switches, or a rotary combination switch. To me this is overkill, and has lots of bad things that can happen if you don't operate it correctly, (fried alternator, etc)

As to battery placement, I have one behind the galley (the original location from macgregor) and one under the aft dinette seat.
The weight should be kept low to help stability, and boat trim should be maintained by locating the heavy items in a balanced manner (water tanks, batteries, ice chest, tools, fuel tanks). the batts should be physically secured from moving around, and protection added to keep anything from shorting across the terminals. All wires should be fused within a few feet of the battery to guard against wiring shorts.

There is a way to fish wire from starboard to port side, via the companionway step.

[kmclemore]

I have the following setup:

• • 3 Toggle Switches: House (on/off) / Engine (on/off) / Both (combined/separate) located in the V-Berth's aft bulkhead (next to the forward dinette seat)
  • WestMarine Battery Combiner
  • 40-Watt Solar panel (on the sliding hatch) charging through a SafeGuard Solar controller
  • 2 conventional wet-cell batteries (Sears Die-Hard), located in the port-side V-Berth stornage area, strapped to a built-up platform made of 1/4" smoked plexiglass.
  • Xantrex Link 200 battery monitor, located in the V-Berth's aft bulkhead (next to the forward galley seat)

(Above is an old photo, but the boat is in storage presently, so it's hard to get a better pic. The SafeGuard Solar controller is now located on the bulkhead under the combiner in the photo. The Xantrex shunt is located below that, horozontally on the platform upon which the batteries rest.)

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

I've always been a proponent of the single bank on boats as simple and small as ours. The Mac electrical system is very simple and I don't feel it merits the full marine dual battery setup.

I had two 12v in parallel just as Craig describes. They were 2 Group 24 batteries each with 65Ahrs giving a total of 130Ahrs. Both were under the seat aft of the galley. This served well for 5 years but the batteries were beginnning to die (one was who knows how old as it was in the boat when I bought it used. It was going through a lot of water and as they both had gone low on water their output was most likely diminished).

This past summer I replaced them with 2 - 6v Golf cart batteries in series. They are mounted in a poly battery box up forward in the vee berth compartment. Each GC2 6v has 215Ahrs giving me a total of 215Ahrs at 12v when wired in series.

I simply used extension welding cables to wire them back to my single on/off switch on the aft end of the galley. No changes to the rest of the boat wiring were required to make the battery move. I find the X likes the weight forward and behaves better with it low and centered up front under both sail and power. I keep both the batteries and my water tanks in this forward storage area.

I do carry a small jump starter just in case, but I seriously doubt I'll ever run out of juice with such a large battery bank. Starting the 50hp Tohatsu uses very little power.

Another reason I don't worry about having only a single bank is my 'Link 10' amp hour meter. This lets me know in real time exactly what my amp loads are and how many amp hours I have left in the batteries. I feel you are better off to put your $200 into a good meter than to spend it on combiners, switches, cables, etc. (Of course if you have the money for both, go for it, but you need a more expensive 2 bank amp hour meter to really know your battery state.) Remember that a volt meter is next to useless under normal cruising conditions. Even a very accurate one will not give you the true picture of your charge state until the batteries have sat un-used with no load for 24 hours. Basically useless when out on a trip.

The battery box up front (white box to right)


Main power switch
The primary DC panel is below it.
It feeds the original DC panel up front between the windows
and the secondary DC panel at the pedestal.
The breaker panel is 15 amp 120v shore power.


The Amp Hour meter


Many, Many other mods both past and present, electrical and otherwise, at my web site you may find interesting.

http://www.ddunn.org/Mods.htm

[Paul S]

do a search on the forum...there are many many threads on battery setups...

here is one thread http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=5155

and another
http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=5067

I have the 3 switch setup (3 on/off switch)..in a nutshell I like it because you NEVER have to touch the switch...less chance of switchng the motor off while running (not a good thing). House is always house...motor is always motor...they charge the same time (well motor first, then house), you CAN jump them to start a bad starting battery (or assist the house batterry).

Everyone has their favorite setup...but for this topic, the search feaure is your best friend.

Paul

[Frank C]

I agree w/Duane & took his advice. I now have a single bank, two Group 31 Marine deep-cycles are shoe-horned into the 26X's factory battery compartment (aft of the galley, with just minor trimming of the hatch opening). They are 115 ah each, paralleled to 230 amp hours ... way more than I need. Even if my house bank goes way, way down, it's still going to start my Suzuki. I also carry a jump starter battery, so no worries.

These mid-range outboards are actually tiny little motors (by automotive comparison) so they simply don't justify 50 pounds of battery power dedicated just to starting duty. Is your starting battery a Lawn & Garden style? ... that would make a lot more sense. All export-26Xs seem have battery moved into the pedestal (maybe an EU requirement).

My Suzuki has a 25-amp alternator, ample recharging potential for my electricity usage so I've rarely needed to use AC chargers. I also followed advice from this board and bought a Link battery monitor ... but that's still awaiting installation.

My 26X is dry stored at a marina, where I rarely have AC power available. Hence, I have not installed any equipment that demands AC, and can't seem much need for an AC power system. (The only AC-demand I could imagine is a microwave oven ... not compelling to me ... so I think I'll just remain a DC boat). If I ever saw potential of staying on DC for longer than a few days, I'd look into getting that portable Honda 1000 genset.

[Divecoz]

FrankC and a few others regularly bring up a fact, that I hate to dwell on.
No Regular availability to 110V power source.
I am spoiled so far as we have shore power where we berth. But I am not finding it as common where we intend on moving to.
It may not in time be a big deal, but I have found it very convenient, so far to have a small 110V. fridge full of water pop beer wine etc,. and to have a fan running 24/7 when we are absent. I have yet to change over to two battery system as well. Though I have some of the hardware in the garage. None of the spendy $$ electronic pieces have been bought as of yet. Almost 3 years ago a member on this board, suggested I wait and see how I use the boat before I buy a bunch of stuff I really don't need or wont use. Hummmmmm good advice as I look back on it.

[50/50]

.Thanks for the replies boys. Have had the boat since August. We put a new Yam 50 High thrust Injection on and basically cruised around the the Caledonian Canel Loch Ness and a little bit of coastal stuff, not much. First boat,so we've had a lot to learn and lot lot more as we go.

We are planning a weeks holiday in early summer, all the way down the canal to Fort William then onwards to Oban and up the sound of Mull to Tobermoray. There are various mods that I need to carry out in order to make our (my wife and I) trip more comfy. The 2000X has had no mods done so lots to do. I feel that the battery mod needs to be a priority.
The batteries need to be in place so that I can start the wiring runs.

I want to move the existing battery from the pedestool so Duanne am I best to put them up front? The locker you have used seems to be the one I have the ballast vent in on the 2000.( BTW I have visited your site many times, have thouroghly enjoyed your log and mods. When I was researching which boat to buy your site contributed greatly to my final choice of the Mac. Great site, thanks)

What are your thoughts on this meter: Nasa Battery Monitor BM-1


Jumpstart kit? What type of battery do you use?

[Frank C]

Gerry,
Yep, that looks like a pretty good battery monitor, similar to our Link brand (maybe better). I have a jumpstart battery sold by our Costco stores @ $50. I think it's spec shows 450 amps of surge capacity, ample to start an outboard. Fact is that it easily starts my Chevy V-8 from a dead-flat battery, plus it has embedded air compressor - great for emergency topping the trailer tires.

FWIW, there's some debate on this issue of battery placement. IMO, the earlier 26X needed to move weight forward, so the batteries at the v-berth were a good strategy. However beginning in model year '99, the factory responded to the trend of heavier outboards. They adjusted the ballast for better weight distribution, such that my Mac Dealer actually recommended NOT placing batteries forward on my model 2000. His logic sounded right to me:

• The factory battery locker, at center of the boat, is best for concentrated weights;
• It can offset porta-potty, Ice chest & stowage under the dinettes.
• It eliminates need of long, heavy cable runs to the breaker panel.
• Finally, two group 27 batteries fit perfectly in the aft-galley locker;
• Or even group 31s with some trimming.

Battery Monitor BM-1 (online link)

[Craig LaForce]

Cool. I was just going to say that the only people that would describe Duane's boat as simple would be Duane and maybe a NASA engineer.

Then the next post is about a NASA battery monitor. Amazing coincidence.

[Bobby T.-26X #4767]

i had a Suzuki 50 for the first two years of X ownership. it took nearly nothing to turn it over. little battery & little cables.
then i re-powered with the Tohatsu 90. the existing battery had difficulty turning over the high compression 2-stroke on cold mornings. in fact it could not do it.
so, i upgraded to a higher amp battery from West Marine (1,000) and i still had problems.
finally, i changed out the small cables to much larger ones.

so now i have big battery and large cables that run from the X stock battery location.
i also have a house battery under the front dinette sette.
both are connected with a 1-2-both-off switch and WM combiner.

bottom line...for initial "turn-over", the 4 strokes need less battery and cables than do the high compression 2 strokes.
in fact, to turn over a high compression large horsepower 2 stroke, my recommendation is to re-locate the starter battery to the rear within 3-4 feet of the motor. this will allow for less voltage drop between runs.

Bob T.
"DaBob"
'02X w/ '04 90-TLDI (14" x 11 pitch)
Dinghy Motor: '06 2.5-Suzuki

[Frank C]

Good point ... the 2-stroke has double the number of cylinders on simultaneous compression stroke. My Suzuki-60 (1300 cc) is very easy for the starter to turn over. It invariably catches & starts within a second .... 3 revs, or so ... sounds like it's catching as the first or second spark plug snaps.

[50/50]

Thanks Frank,

Was'nt sure how things have differed over the manufacture years. I would obviously relish the easier / shorter run of cables to the 'standard battery'installation.

The battery moniter is good! (nearly US$200..!)

If, though, these medium hp low compression 4s motors are easy to start maybe I should'nt be worrying about the 'no power to start' scenario and enter the 'comfort zone' of hand starting!

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

I don't recall ever reading that the actual configuration of the ballast tank was changed from the earlier X's to the later ones. All I've ever seen mentioned is the move of the various valve and vent openings. I would think you could work around the vent opening if you really wanted to put the weight forward.

I'd suggest you test out how your specific boat responds to weight in various places and decide from there. I noticed that I liked the way the boat handled when someone was sitting down on the vee berth, so I decided to put the battery weight there. It is to the right of center. My water tanks are to the left of center. Most of our food is also there in the locker under the forward dinette. Our big cooler is under the aft dinette, our smaller beverage cooler is on the seat aft of the galley. The larger porta potty is obviously in the head. Our wide open galley allow it to hold quite a bit more than normal.

All in all I can't say I noticed any change in trim when I went from the 2 group 24's in the locker aft of the galley on the port side to the larger GC2's forward and slightly to starboard. I think having their weight closer to the centerline minimized any side to side impact. The boat still sit's on her lines after the changes just like it did before the change. Probably more a testament to how heavily loaded the boat is that moving that much weight has a minimal impact.

I do like the weight farther forward, but I already have quite a bit of weight aft with the 4 six gallon fuel tanks, the 3 gallon dinghy tank, and the 6 hp dinghy outboard on it's bracket. My 50 hp Tohatsu is about the lightest 50hp out there which reduces the impact.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Many find hand starting the new motors a challenge without some battery power. It's not because of the cranking issue, but they require some power to get the computer running. Without that none of the systems work.

I guess that's the one place my old school carborated Tohatsu 50 actually wins over the new motors. It's a loud, gas hog, but with no electronics you don't even need a battery to get it going.