Boat heel vs speed

[baldbaby2000]

Although the canting keel is not a new concept, I thought the numbers on speed vs heel for this boat were interesting. The speed went from 5.5 knots to 7 knots when the keel was adjusted to take the heel from 30 degrees to 10 degrees. On our boats, use the "rail meat" to your advantage as long as your carrying it anyway!
http://www.popularmechanics.com/outdoor ... 76881.html

BB

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Macs have always been faster sailed on their feet. Reef early, even with less sail area you will go faster with the boat flat than with full sail up and the boat heeled over.

This is particularly true with the flat X hull. Think of it as a sailing scow.

I would consider 30 degrees an very high heel angle in these boats. The more you heel the slower you go.

[Night Sailor]

I get my best results between 10 and 15 degrees and larger tacking angles. I never let it go over 20 if speed is important. Just for fun of course, it's seen twice 20!

[beene]

That does it....
I need a second reef point...
No matter what the cost...

[delevi]

40-45 degrees heel in 35 knts wind; double reefed main and RF jib down to storm jib size. Can't break 7 knts due to the heel angle, but if you want to maintain a close hauled course, the only other option to reduce heel is flogging the main. Don't like that option. Not comfortable, a bit wet, but a hull of a wild ride

[kmclemore]

I've fond that most boats perform best at no more than 10-12% of heel... after that the hull gets in the way of going faster.

[eric3a]

..

[Mark Karagianis]

Delevi - You went out sailing knowing you were going to have 35-knot conditions? I admire your ability, but to deliberately put yourself and the people who may have to rescue you in peril is . . . foolish. They don't call it "Small Craft Warning" for nothing.

I too have found that a more vertical boat will sail faster, and agree that the broader reach courses are faster and more fun, but don't forget you guys that we have to show the keel boat sailors that we CAN point just as well as them - maybe we need Delevi to come down to Santa Monica Bay & show 'em.

Mark

[Terry]

Delevi - You went out sailing knowing you were going to have 35-knot conditions? I admire your ability, but to deliberately put yourself and the people who may have to rescue you in peril is . . . foolish. They don't call it "Small Craft Warning" for nothing.
Mark

I thought 35 knots was Gale force not Small Craft. When I first took sailing lessons on a 26' Thunderbird 30 years ago the instuctor told us that when a Small Craft warning was issued that was the signal for sailors to come out. Come to think of it, the bay is usually very busy with sails during Small Craft warnings. Not sure I would call the Mac a "small craft" Actually I am not really sure where one draws the line at small craft, maybe under 20'feet? My canoe would be a small craft. Are small craft winds 20-30 knots, & above 30 Gales, and then on up from there?

[eric3a]

..

[delevi]

Delevi - You went out sailing knowing you were going to have 35-knot conditions? I admire your ability, but to deliberately put yourself and the people who may have to rescue you in peril is . . . foolish. They don't call it "Small Craft Warning" for nothing.

Mark,
Where are you coming from calling me foolish? Have you ever sailed in 35 knts? How do you know it's dangerous? Maybe you have and were frightened by the experience... but even so that's you, not me. I now this boat and what it can handle and have done numerous things to it since buying it over 2 years ago to make it handle more and more. I have sailed numerous times in 30+ knts wind and with only one exception, never felt that my crew or I were in danger. The exception is when I first got the boat and wasn't prepared for the conditions. When the big wind hit, I dropped sails as quickly as I could and motored back. Those conditions are par for the course for me now. Been out in gusts of 45+ too with just the jib, keeping the boat at about 25-30 degrees. I would be willing to bet that someone who doesn’t push his abilities would be more likely to need the coast guard’s help than someone who does. Ones who push the envelope (not the idiots) but those who are smart about it, tend to build their skills. Plenty of sailors go out in 35 knts. In my area, these conditions are not uncommon, often predictable. Switch goes on at 1 pm and off about 5 pm, so it's not like getting caught in a storm. Love San Francisco Bay. Anyway, do some homework before making assumptions.

Eric,

There has been some discussion in the past on this board about a 3rd reef. My dealer said that a deeper reef just makes the mainsail useless on the Mac M. He had some customers do this and reported that the boat just won’t move. I think in the real heavy stuff, you’re fine with the factory reef and roller reefed jib or storm sail, or just the reefed main w/o jib. If you’re not beating, the boat does really well with jib and no main. If it gets really extreme, it’s probably time for bare poles and the iron genny, making a 3rd reef obsolete.

Leon

[beene]

Where are you coming from calling me foolish?

Delevi, do you have a second reef point:?: After reading others posts I am going to have one installed, just to keep the heel down. I agree that a 3rd on an M is overkill, but then again I think Eric is looking for 45+ kts before he will bother going out… Thing is, I would be the first to volunteer as crew if he went out in that

I read an article once that said small craft warning is not so much about the size of the boat, but a combination of the size of craft and the abilities of her captain. Just because you have a smaller boat doesn't mean you shouldn't go out and play, and if you have a larger boat you should not feel overconfident just because she's BIG

To know your boat, it's capabilities and yours as captain, are crucial to safe boating in any weather.

oooops
Just realized I was standing on a soap box... sorry

[delevi]

Delevi, do you have a second reef point:?:

I do, but judging by your post, you may have the 1st/2nd reef confused. The factory reef point is the deep reef point. Those who have installed a 2nd reef point, myself included, had it installed halfway between the factory reef and the tack. This is nice when winds are 15 knts or more, especially on a beat; where the full reef is overkill but the full sail is a bit much. In 20 knts+ use the factory reef, sometimes referred to here as double reefing. If the wind increases, start furling in some jib. A good setup for 20knts is the first reef, also known as the intermediate reef and about 2/3 to 3/4 jib. When people discuss a 3rd reef, that is a reduction in sail beyond the factory reef, which as mentioned above is probably a waste; but I don't have first hand expereince here.

[eric3a]

..

[delevi]

Eric,

I have no experience with a hank-on storm sail and am a big advocate of the furler. I know you don't like them but consider this: When the wind picks up, the Mac is easily overpowered with full sails. Having a furler gives you the ability to have unlimited sail size options for your jib. If you install a luff pad and running backstays, sail shape will not be compromised much. Not to mention the convenience of furling/unfurling your jib in seconds. If you stick with the hank-on, I believe http://thesailwarehouse.com has a 70 sq ft 8 oz storm sail for the Mac Not 100% on those specs.

If you're willing to spend some substantial money, I would suggest upgrading the sails altogether, rather than spending money on reefs for the stock sail. The stock sails are very low quality and carry way too much drag in heavy air. Granted, I used mine until they blew out, which took less than 2 years, but these light sails were not designed for the conditions I typically sail in. The Quantum Fusion X sails I now have are amazing. Much better speed, less heel and less weather helm. If you go that route, make sure you get a cunningham and 2-3 reefs. My main is loose-footed with top 2 battens full. I highly recommend this setup... works super well on the Mac. If you do go the loose footed route, you'll need a more powerful outhaul. I also upgraded my mainsheet to a 6:1 ratchmatic. Ahh, it goes on and on. Once you start, it's hard to stop. The improvements really are tremendous and makes the boat a real joy to sail, but man, you really gotta pay if you wan to play. I can give you more detail if you're interested. You can also search this site. I have several threads on this.

Cheers,
Leon