I'm wondering if, when you furl your genny to working jib size, if you find that the clew is a fair bit higher than the standard jib, making sheeting tougher on the short inboard tracks. IOW - have you found yourself wishing for longer jib tracks when you do this? Thanks,
You can run the sheets on the inside of the stays for going upwind but it's a hassle because you have to restring the sheets if you go offwind.
BB
Right. I'm just wondering if the sheeting angle is right when one does that with the factory tracks. It looks like it would require longer foreward tracks because the clew on the 1/3-furled Genny would be about 12" - 18" higher off the deck than with a working jib. IOW - the sheet would be pulling down too much, making too tight a leech. Just wondering if people are happy doing this with the factory tracks.
Right. I'm just wondering if the sheeting angle is right when one does that with the factory tracks. It looks like it would require longer foreward tracks because the clew on the 1/3-furled Genny would be about 12" - 18" higher off the deck than with a working jib. IOW - the sheet would be pulling down too much, making too tight a leech. Just wondering if people are happy doing this with the factory tracks.
If you're talking the jib tracks I agree. I think the sheeting angle would be very bad.
The point where the foresail is sheeted is fairly critical, especially beating upwind. When you change the size of the foresail, by whatever means, chances are you need to change the position of the sheet block to maintain proper sail shape. MOST of the time (but not all) if the sheet angle is continued in a straight line forward to to forestay, it should intersect the middle of the sails luff...On a Mac with the Gennie all the out (150%) I suspect that's WAY back past the end of the factory track, but I could be wrong..I have never seen a foresail sheet rigged inside the shrouds..Should you bear off the wind a little, the sheet will foul the shroud. Perhaps some racing boats resort to this to gain that last bit to upwind ability, but a mac?
When the genny is all the way out, you use the tracks on the cockpit gunwale, not the forward tracks..agree that using full genny and forward tracks would be ugly....
I was actually meaning sheeting a furled, non-over-lapping genny down to the forward jib tracks.
It seems like when you furl a genny, the clew heads upward from the deck (as well as forward) as it's rolled in. So that if you could hold up the working jib along side of it for comparison (both at 100% of bow-to-mast), the genny's clew would be at least 12" higher than that of the working jib - making it tough to sheet on the foreward tracks. This isn't the case? Thanks!
he genny's clew would be at least 12" higher than that of the working jib - making it tough to sheet on the foreward tracks.
Very good point Bob.
I am convinced I want to try this though. I want to obtain the best possible pointing I can without having to change to the Jib. If I find that sheeting inside will give me better pointing angle and/or headway/speed I will do it, even if it is a hassle.
I wont be racing of course, so there is time to play with rigging whenever I am out there. I am also usually single handed, which allows for more tuning time without bothering any passengers who just want to sail.
G
.....now if only I had dual forestays, 2 furlers, genny and jib...... hmmmmm
I kept two sets of sheets on my headsail for a long time, if you look closely, you can see it in this picture:
I used smaller 1/4 inch sheets for the jib cars. The trick of course is that you need to roll up the genoa to about jib size or smaller before you can use the jib car sheets. I found that this only helped upwind boat speed in pretty high winds. Perhaps this is because the clew is too high and the pull angle is not quite right (too vertical). My observation is that you can still not match the performance of the real jib so I have stopped doing it due to the extra hassle of more tangle (the dual sheets tend to twist up a lot easier than the single ones).
A good racing boat probably has 3-4 different sized headsails on board but of course, they don't typically use furlers either.
This is something that I'm definitely planning on doing (double-sheeting - when I actually get a boat ). I'm basically planning on adding/extending foreward jib tracking right from the get-go. Having it all planned out will help me with any sail purchases. Thanks!
When do most of you furl your genny ? I will be using hank on sails . I have a genoa and a jib . I was thinking around the 10-12 knot windspeed for the switch . Do any of you find that about right or am I off in my thinking there. I currently sail a V-24 and that is my decision point for which sail to use .
Highlander wrote:2 furler headstays jib , genny, hmmmmm. so you been looking at my boat mods "cutter rig"
John,
Not sure if Beene did, but I had definitely studied it for quite some time. That is one majorly impressive mod At one time I started drawings of a cutter mod with tandem slip-sheets for tacking two jibs easily - looked fun - then I thought about needing more backstay(s) on the M, lee-helm, etc. So I quit
Are there any discussion threads here where you describe how she sails? If not, would you mind taking us for a virtual ride? Is there too much lee-helm when you fly multiple jibs? How do you take the mast down without going insane? So many questions. Again, awesome!
I think the consesus is that the jib is superior upwind and on every other point of sail in wind seeds 12 knts+ thus, overall is the better sail to have. So the question is: How much speed gain do you get from the genoa vs jib in say 10-12 knots, beam reach or lower? I wouldn't know, since I've only had the jib, but I'm willing to bet the difference would be slim. If this is true, than the decision isn't that difficult. When I bought my boat, the dealer told me that the boat sails far better with the jib, is a lot easier to learn on with the jib and that there would be few instances when the genoa would really be of much benefit. I took his advice. I suppose if my locale was different, i.e. typical light winds, perhaps the advice would have also been different.
Now what I don't understand is why so many of you say the Mac is not a good upwind performer. I can get my boat to point really high and have hit speeds over 7 knots upwind. I don't think the boat makes much leeway at all. The board, though smaller than a typical keel is relatively long and seems to generate ample lift once you get going. I do agree about the inertia part. It is light, no question about that.
As for foam luffs: I have one and it works great, as promised. I asked the sailmaker if it affects unfurled performance and he told me it is very slight. The foam is very well integrated into the sail behind the luff and is pretty flat, so it doesn't appear there would be any measurable disturbance of the wind flow... probably no more than a sewn on sunbrella cover.
). I'm basically planning on adding/extending foreward jib tracking right from the get-go. Having it all planned out will help me with any sail purchases. Thanks!
At one time I started drawings of a cutter mod with tandem slip-sheets for tacking two jibs easily - looked fun - then I thought about needing more backstay(s) on the M, lee-helm, etc. So I quit 
