forestay, backstay

[Francis]

Well this past weekend was the first time back in the water. After rigging and getting the boat in the water is when I realized that I forgot to put the bird on top of the mast. I think the bird will have to take a rest this year.

The winds were great and the sailing was good. But what I noticed is that my backstay is really loose. It has always been firm before that I can remember. My mast has a lot of bend and rake the way that I want it, but I can't understand, if that is the case, why is the backstay so loose? I do have to tighten up my forestay as well. I know last season I had a loose forestay and Night Sailor suggested unthreading my turnbuckle and rethreading both ends back into the turnbuckle until both ends meet again. I did play with it but I think I forgot the part of rethreading both ends. I do notice a gap of more then I would say 1/2 inch or so. So maybe when I do the adjustment that Night Sailor suggested, then maybe that might take up the slack of the backstay as well. The boat seemed to sail pretty well, but I did notice a small bit of leeward helm instead of weather helm. But then again, I really never had much of a problem with weather helm. So I guess the question is, do you think if I do get the forestay tighter, do you think that will tighten up the backstay as well. And why would the back stay have the rake that it has with the backstay being so loose?

Also one more question while I have you. I have a large solor panel for my batteries and I noticed that the plastic face has several cracks in it. Will this affect the way that it works? Once it is cracked do you think I need to buy another one?

Thanks for your help and I will be looking forward from hearing from you.

[Frank C]

Francis,
Not sure about your solar panels, but your rig must have some significant issues. All of the rig's standing components, stays and shrouds, have lengths precisely adjusted to stand the mast at a specific position and prebend, at specific tensions. You can't just "tighten" the forestay turnbuckle without making other, compensating changes, or you're totally "punting" your previous tune settings. Absent other changes, the backstay shouldn't come up too short, or too long.

When you previously tightened your turnbuckle, was that because you had intentionally opened it? If so, maybe it's okay to simply close that gap again, but you really should check for balanced shroud tensions.

When you last dropped the mast, did you remove all the shrouds, by chance? If so, you must reinstall shrouds in exactly the same positions for each (port & stb) and exactly the same adjuster holes. Otherwise, you need to re-tune everything.

If you've left your boat sitting at the slip with a notably loose forestay, then the rig is subject to shock-loading by ambient winds and waves. Even in mast-up storage, like mine, the winds are constantly stressing the standing rig. It shouldn't be a drastic problem sitting in a marina, unless a big storm blows through. On a mooring ball, by contrast, the rig may take a severe pounding. Regardless, you really do need to get the rig tuned to protect it, and to protect you too.

Actually, we all should re-tune the rig at beginning of each season. I'm not sure why, but the rig tune changes over time ... whether sailing or just sitting. I recently found my upper shrouds, previously set to 400+ lbs. had relaxed to about 260 lbs. And, they don't necessarily "relax" at the same rates. You can read about rig tuning under the "Featured Articles" button (see left margin).

[gwmoore]

I recently experienced a similar problem, but in my case, I raise the mast each time I go out. When I got back and lowered my mast one of my spreaders just snapped off. Fortunately for me I had been on a long port tack before lowering my sails and the damaged spreader was on my starbord side. I dread to think what could have happened if I had done one more tack.

[Francis]

Frank, the reason why I had to loosen and tighten my forestay before is that sometimes when I would raise my mast the forestay would fall a little short to the chain plate that it has to attach to. So I would loosen the turnbuckle so that it could reach it better, then I would attach the forestay and retighten it again. I have never touched any of the other settings around the boat with just the forestay exception. Everything is still set the same way as when I first bought the boat. I was wondering too that maybe in time the wires just streatch or something. The thing that is strange too is why the backstay is so loose but the mast seems to still have the same rake and bend that it alwasys had.
I will have to read that article that you had mentioned.

[Frank C]

Some guys use a foot loop to attach the forestay. Tie a 6-foot loop of rope (a circle), and stand down on the trailer ladder. Loop the rope around the furler drum and then step into the loop. Your body weight will stretch the rig, and you'll be at eye-level for pinning the forestay.

Here are two other (current) threads on the same topic of rig tuning:
Rig Tuning 2000X Standing Rigging -- topical discussion
'69 v17 gooseneck -- This poor guy ('69 Venture 17) lost his mast & gained a hole in the deck!

(alt. search terms foot-loop)

[Francis]

Frank,
it just occured to me that mayby why the backstay is so loose is that it might not be all the way raised forward. I use to always use the mast raising system and would crank the mast up pretty good before I attached the forestay. This time I had someone just hand raise it up while I attached the forestay. Do you think I just need to put the mast raising system back on and try to crank the mast up a little tighter? Just a thought. If that is what it is, then maybe after doing that I could readjust the forestay tension again.
Just grabbing for things here. How does that sound to you?

[Frank C]

Since it was your practice to change the turnbuckle during rigging, it sounds as if your turnbuckle is just way too wide-open. As NightSailor advised before ... yeah, I'd first check to see if everything goes tight by just closing-down that turnbuckle.

If that seems to correct your issues, then "sight the mast" from the aft cockpit to see that it looks straight ... it probably will. Then "pluck" the upper shrouds to see if they're about equal tightness, then check the lowers in same manner. That will give you comfort that it's at least standing securely on its own.

When well-heeled under sail, the lee shrouds might be almost slack but they shouldn't be sagging-slack. In winds of only 10 kts or so, you shouldn't see any slack at all. See Bruce's article for more hints on reviewing the rig while underway.

[Francis]

Ok Frank, I will give it a try and keep my fingers crossed.
Thanks alot for your help.

[Francis]

Well, I took the boat out this weekend and before I shoved off I addressed my slack backstay and forestay problem. I read everything that everyone had to say and then I thought of how the mast was raised. Usually I use the mast raising system and reall crank it up snug before I attach the forestay. But when I raised it this time, I had someone pick it up and hold it while I attached the forestay. So thinking of that I put the mast raiser back on and sure enough the mast still had a few good cranks on it to snug it up. As soon as I did that the backstay straightened out with no slack, and then I just readjusted the forestay like Night Sailor had suggested, and boom, everything was golden. When I was sailing, at times when the wind was going through the rigging it was singing to me. I thought at first the motor was running because it was in the water, but I brought the motor up and relized that it was the wind just going through the rigging when it kicked up a little. But anyway, thanks and all is well now.
O yea, the only other little glitch that I do not under stand is that the first day out my motor still died on me when I first started it and backed out of the slip. It also died on me coming back into the slip at slow speed. But the day after that everything went well. The thing that bugged me is that it just came out of the shop with a tune up and all that stuff, so it shouldn't of done that as far as I'm concerned. Don't know why that happened. Fuel tank was open and ball was pumped. Hopefully it was just a fluke.
O well

[Frank C]

Well, I took the boat out ...
at times when the wind was going through the rigging it was singing to me.
I thought at first the motor was running because it was in the water,
but ... relized that it was the wind just going through the rigging ... all is well now.

That's Golden~!

... bugged me is that it just came out of the shop with a tune up and all that stuff, so it shouldn't of done that as far as I'm concerned.

Your profile doesn't show what motor you have, but a stalling motor is among boating's greatest bugaboo. Carbureted engines require frequent exercise. The Honda guys who use Honda's carb engines in daily rental fleets seem to have no problems. It's when used in "weekend waters" that they give trouble, unless specific storage & maintenance procedures are followed. A current post by Argonaut (diff thread) describes those procedures.

[Francis]

Frank,
yea, mine is a 9.9 Honda.
Your comment could explain my prob. I will have to check this out.
I will look up Argonauts thread.
Thanks