aya16 wrote:Did anyone look at the videos on Evinrude site I posted the link too?
No comments so far, check out the tug of war...
Sorry Mike, but I drilled about 12 layers down into that Evinrude website and never did find anything about a tug-o-war. Just one opinion, that's one of the most convuluted websites I've ever seen.
You might post the specific page, even if it's too long. One of the Mods can trim it later ... or if you want, send me a PM of the precise link.
Frank thats the link but it takes a few seconds to load, when you click the link just let it load for a min. It will add the features I said. Then click e tech challenges then you have a menu of things like tug a war. good luck.
Yes very snappy ads for sure and lots of info to let the big boys of outboards dispute. I like the ads it leaves the ball in merc and yamahas court.
I have to ask this…
1. Do you “Believe” the pull off is fixed for the ETEC to win?
2. Would ETEC have shown this staged performance if Yamaha had prevailed?
3. Would you like to buy some Asian stock set-up to perform like the ETEC?
4. Evenrude packaged and sold Suzuki Engines as their “Fitch Ram Pitch” didn’t
Last edited by They Theirs on Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
That suz 50 is a hull of a motor thats for sure. and with power trim and fuel injection and light weight for a four stroke will shine very well on my 13 foot whaler. What it does on the mac is work its butt off to reach Mac Nirvana. That poor engine screams its guts out for me.
As some can tell Im sitting here at my computer today bored and taking a lot of pain pills. and not sailing in this perfect weather we are having today. I would if I could. So you all have to put up with my ranting. Just so I can just think about sailing and being on the water.
Boat Engines are like driving a car in second gear…they are designed to operate as such. We own the same Suzuki engine…. chain driven DOHC, 4 valve per cylinder computer fuel injected with a CVC transmission…gear final drive. The 2-cylinder water-cooled (Radiator) machine with powerful, smooth operation, with exceptional throttle response through a computer controlled fully automatic transmission. Suzuki was first on the market with computer controlled electronic fuel injection with their DF50 Award winning design 9 years ago. They’ve certainly refined their product line while many others have attempted one technology after another trying to better Suzuki’s success and high-tech engineering.
I think if the pull off was fixed yamaha would be screaming bloody murder.
I think the whole Evinrude website that shows all this is pure marketing.
very good marketing. I also know evinrude doesnt have a tenth of the new boat market to install their engines as merc. But I think evinrude is going after the re power market rightly so. But what I think is if Evinrude manages to convince the pro bass fishermen (privateers) that the evinrude engine is better, and it really is then merc and others in the Bass pro circuit dont want their engines being beat to the fishing grounds on national tv every event. They will make a competitive epa legal 2 stroke to keep up. (that start in the tournaments is as important to the people that watch the stuff like wrestling).
That will trickle down to us, the small time buyer. Merc already super charges and turbo charges its monster motors and if its true they cant keep up with a 2 stroke high tech. Then they will follow instead of lead.
or buy it and shelve it.
Its just very interesting to me, I love the smell of burning oil in the morning, it feels......like victory...
I have some info which might be usefull. After reading this site for years I opted for the mercury 4 stroke 60hp non big foot model, I didn't want the extra weight of the BF. The Smartcraft built into the motor talks to a Navman chartplotter 5380I which is very reasonable, about $400, so I have all engine guages on it, along with great internal gps features. It is very small and mounted under the steering wheel. I chose Mercury because I wanted to be able to go anywhere with my 26x, including Lake Tahoe and I wanted it quiet. Thus the 4 stroke. The weight of the 60 was the same as the 40 and 50 so the extra ten horses was gained at no loss except the expense. I've seen a few larger motors that seemed to crack the transoms on their x's, only surface cracks, but I didn't want to go any larger. The extra 5 mph are not that important to me. I am using the stock prop which is a 12 inch 11 pitch. Cruising speed is about 14 mph at 3500 rpm with 4 gallons per hour. If I back off to 11 mph I get much better economy, about 1.8 gph, and a very easy feel. Top speed at sea level is a little over 18mph at 5800 rpm, ballast empty and light loads, maybe 2-3 people equiped for a day cruise. The rated top rpm is 6200 so I might try my backup prop which is a 12 inch 10 pitch. I beefed up the transom with some aluminum plates inside and out, I'll be happy to send pictures. I have recently returned from a month on the Sea of Cortez and it worked well with no complaints. More speed would always be nice, but this is fast enough to suit my needs. I have more info if you are interested, hope this helps. Westy
This discussion is on going and is worth going on about. Not so the owners of diff. engines can argue but more for the new buyer. or the guy that re powers an older boat.
I bought a full size Bronco many years ago. I ordered it and outfitted it from the dealer and waited for it to be made and for it to arrive. I had the choice of a 302 V8 engine or the 351 V8. As the bronco came with an overdrive trans. with the 302 V8 and not the 351 I went with the 302.
Right from the time I picked it up I could tell I wouldnt be happy with the 302. I seemed under power a little. I really came to hate my decision when I bought a larger boat a short time after. The Bronco would tow alright just didnt have the guts to tow very well. I sold the Bronco a couple years after I bought it.
The point is The 50 on the Mac is adequate on a lightly loaded boat that doesnt have to be used for long motoring times. (not my case) A sixty is much better but then you start to get a much heavier engine on the back of the Mac, if you go with a fourstroke. This is suzuki's case. Merc, yamaha and evinrude use the same motor for the 60 and the 50.
A seventy or seventy five will work even better then the 50 or 60. But again now your looking at much more weight. (I personally dont think sailing is really effected that much with that much more weight.) But if the seventy is a better power plant to put on the mac then going with the 90 (because its the same engine as most 70's) would be the best choice.
When talking about a 90, were talking about an engine that is used on other boats that are in the 16-17 foot class. It isnt even considered a mid size engine but a small engine. A 150 is considered a mid size engine.
Because of the stability and the design of the Mac, and the fact it is a sailboat. The 150 isnt a good choice unless you plan on taking extra precautions and use the boat on calm lakes. But the performance of the Mac with a 150 would be on par with other motor boats its size, except high speed performance boats.
With the etech, 90 your looking at an engine that only weighs 60 or so pounds more than a merc big foot 50. Hardly a problem.
so the only real choice is 4 stroke versus 2 stroke. Hands down I would want the 4 stroke with less power over the 2 stroke of old with more power. But the etech looks very nice and if no problems pop up over the next year or so the 90 etech would be (my opinion) the best choice for the Mac.
Price is a factor of course, but if you have the need to plane and go long distance the money needs to be spent. Like my Bronco, it was a good fun 4wheel drive untill I tried to tow a boat 3/4's of its tow capacity.
Mac doesnt want our boats powered with a larger engine. But Mac doesnt really give a good reason. I have heard the extra weight hurts the sailing performance (60 pounds is no more than a chubby little kid). I only heard that Mac doesnt recommend. Now if there is a problem with the stability, or things breaking like the ballast tank cracking or the transom not being able to deal with the extra power. Mac hasnt said that. And frankly if I made the Mac and I knew people were putting much larger engines on anyway I would beef up those things and not say anything about it so as not to encourage the use of the bigger motor.
A sharp turn at 25 mph could be a problem with the high profile mac with out ballast. Also jack rabbit starts could also cause flexing in the transom i would guess, using a high hp engine if the transom isnt beefed up.
So if anyone decides that a mac with a 90 is the best choice for them they need to understand the limits and be careful. If the mast was to hit the water at a high speed turn it would be very very bad. The boat would cart wheel and probably toss everyone in the drink and rip the mast off. Then the boat would right itself and you have an unmanned 25mph boat turning circles around you.
worse case for sure but if the mac is treated like its supposed to be there shouldnt be any problems at all with higher hp.
Many many people have opted for the 90 and i havent heard any problems from this. So im guessing these people are aware of the limits and use the mac that way. I also know of some that have the 90 and they are very happy with it. (Not just the etech)
Im talking mainly about the M not the X. The M has permanent ballast that is supposed to right the boat without water ballast. The X will turtle without water ballast. And there was a very bad accident that involved an X. No put down of the X and Im sure the X owners are aware of these limitations. And would be careful when selling the boat to let the new owner know these things.
I chose Mercury because I wanted to be able to go anywhere with my 26x, including Lake Tahoe and I wanted it quiet. Thus the 4 stroke.
Actually, Lake Tahoe search and rescue uses Evinrude 2-strokes, they said it was the cleanest engine they could find. From what I can tell there is no real difference in the noise level fom comparable size engines. I have heard Evinrude claim to be the quietest, I heard the same claim from Honda. At WoT I expect to hear any engine when I'm sitting right on top of it!
We chose the 50 hp only because of insurance concerns, if the manufacturer recommends a maximum you can bet your life the insurance company will refuse any claim even it is not or only remotely related to the motor.
After playing with ours I would think the 60 would be perfect, 90 would be more interesting though and I bet once you had it on you wouldn't take it off.
As they say Aya 'Hindsight is 20/20 vision'
I too originally asked for a 60hp Merc but the dealer convinced me the Honda 50 was the way to go, so that is what I have. I always find myself having to justify it's merits when really my true feelings reflect your bronco experience. Even though the Honda is tried and true, bullet proof, lightest 50hp out there, and will provide me years & years of reliable service I have this underlying dissatisfaction with how hard it has to work at WOT. Like you said before, it has to scream its guts out for me. When I hear people like Beene exclaim how easily the boat pops up on plane with a bigger engine I turn green with envy. Yes I know it is a sailboat first and I try to think of myself as a sailor first but damn it is frustrating to hear that poor thing scream it's guts out while never getting out of the hole. Beene's video was the last straw and convinced me that a bigger engine belongs on the Mac to really and fully appreciate the hybrid nature of this boat. While waiting for my Honda to die (could be a while) I too will keep an eye on the E-tec 90 since transom weight is also a concern but I doubt very much that it will be overpowered from what I have been reading here. Sounds to me like the E-tec 90 was made specifically for the Mac especially the saltwater series as that is where I sail, they also make a blue model
Terry wrote: I have this underlying dissatisfaction with how hard it has to work at WOT. Like you said before, it has to scream its guts out for me. but damn it is frustrating to hear that poor thing scream it's guts out while never getting out of the hole. a bigger engine belongs on the Mac to really and fully appreciate the hybrid nature of this boat.
i was where you are three years ago. at the time i owned a two year's new 50 Suzuki. it had low hours and was in pristine condition. i threw it away for $3500, and purchased the 90TLDI for $7200.
i only wish i had done it sooner.
Bob T.
"DāBob"
'02X w/ '04 90-TLDI (14" x 11 pitch)
Dinghy Motor: '06 2.5-Suzuki
