European Macs

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

I'm back from a 3 week trip to Greece and I missed my Mac so much, I'm exploring the idea of buying one to leave in Greece for when I visit there next time . I would appreciate a bit of information from some EC Mac colleagues.

I expect that buying a second Mac in the U.S. or shipping my current Mac over there is very costly, both for shipping costs and import duties. It may be better to buy a used one over there in an EC country, rent/buy a suitable tow vehicle and then trailer it down to Corfu, Greece using roads and ferryboats. I have a place I could keep the boat when I'm not using it.

Anyone have any experience with this? I would be interested in:

1. Prices of used 26X'es in the EC.
2. Prices of suitable rental vehicles (better to buy a used one or rent one?).
3. Taxes and registrations that have to be paid when buying/transporting a used Mac.

I've never seen any Greek Mac owners post to this board in the 16 or so months I've participated at this site, but I'm hoping that the rules are similar in all the EC countries and someone can give me some advice. TIA, Dimitri

[Miquel]

Hi,

bought mine in UK, and I am living in Belgium. I basically use it in Belgium, The Netherlands & Spain (leaving in 3 weeks to the Mediterranean with our Mac!!)

After looking for about 1 year to all prices of Macs (it had to be the 26X), I found what I think it was a very good deal: our Culzean. It's a 98 26X, model 99, finished in September 98, with a Yamaha 50 Hp high thrust. It costed me 22.000 .

Tipically, prices in Europe (for what I saw when looking, at Internet & specialized press) for a 26X from 98 - 99 are around the 25.000 . It depends a lot in extras, and in negotiation you do. But I still didn't see any 26X (as from 96) under the 20.000 .

For the 26S or C, the tipical price seems to be around 10.000 .

Taxes: it depends in which country you are going to inscribe the boat. It seems, for an article I read in a French magazine called "Voiles et voiliers" (Sails & sailboats) that Belgium is the cheapest and easiest country. I paid 1.350 as unique tax, plus about 150 of inmatriculation.
I don't know in Greece.

Hope it helps. Fair winds,

Miquel
Culzean

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

Miquel,

Thanks for the information. When did you buy your boat and what vehicle do you use to tow it with?

Have a great time in the Med!

[Miquel]

I bought it in January 2003. It didn't have the trailer, as the previous owner brought it from Philippines, where he had been leaving, and for the documents I have, he had bought it from the US. He took it back to Europe and did the CE marking stuff. He sold it to change to a bigger boat.

The boat was well preserved, and came with autopilot (Autohelm 4000), compass, B&G log - speed - temp, all sails (jib + genoa + spi), marine toilet, 50l Plastimo water tank, and some other extra's.

He included a new trailer, that came from West Mercey, in UK. It's very similar to the Macgregor one, but galvanized. I use a Volkswagen Sharan 1.9 TDI (130 Hp); it's a monovolume (I don't know if it exists in the US). Up to now, no problem trailering, launching or recovering.

Fair winds,

Miquel
Culzean

[Morimaro]

Dimitri,

couple of potential gotchas importing into the EC (Greece) from countries outside EC. On import the VAT has to be paid and the rate would be Greek VAT%. Also boats built after approx 1998 have to meet the European Recreational Craft Directive to be imported. Which is why MacGregor take US spec boats along the road to MacGregor International premises, where they are refitted to meet the directive before export to any EC country. Greece also has some funny laws about boats permanently moored in Greece owned by non-Greeks.
Otherwise Greece and its islands is a great place to sail and enjoy.

Cheers
Morris Rooms
98Mac26X hullaballoo U.K.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

Morris, thanks for the tips, you are reinforcing my idea that it would not be a good idea to try to bring a Mac to Greece from the U.S. Seems like most of the responses so far have been from U.K. folks or people who bought their Mac *in* the U.K. My sister lives near Manchester so maybe I should ask her to keep an eye in the ads. Hmm, my brother-in-law used to make cabinetry for canal boats, so maybe he still has some contacts there. Btw, did you buy your boat new or used?

One of the reasons I'm considering a trailerable cruiser for Greece is that I typically only go there every couple years (this time it was 4 years but was busy with small children) and I don't like the thought of keeping a boat in the water while I am gone so long and so far away. Keeping it on a trailer only means having a temporary tow vehicle to get the boat launched and un-launched a couple times. I'm one of those lucky few who can claim dual nationality so I don't worry too much about laws applying to non-Greeks Hey, with a name like Dimitri, I gotta be Greek (no, not Russian...they stole the name).

I appreciate hearing from our EU Mac Colleagues, please keep responding. There has got to be at least one Mac in Greece....although I've never seen it.

[GCairney]

It would appear that it is Illegal to import to the EU a boat now without CE marking.

Special Note Regarding Used Craft

The Directive requires that used craft being imported and placed on the market in the EEA for the first time, or being put into service in the EEA for the first time, are CE marked. However, the requirements of the Directive make no special provision for used craft and are such that it is impossible for second hand craft to comply with them. This means that used craft cannot be CE marked and therefore cannot be legally imported into the EEA. This anomaly in the Directive is well known about among member states but there are no immediate plans to rectify it. There are amendments to the Directive tabled for about 2003, but it is unlikely that these will include any changes regarding used craft. This means that the importation of used craft into the EEA is likely to remain illegal for the foreseeable future.

[Octaman]

Yiassou Dimitri from Tampa,

Here's a first!
I guess I am the first Greek Owner to be, posting on this website.
I expect my new Mac 26M to arrive in Greece in a couple of weeks.

I have been following this site, 'macgregor sailors' for some months now and have read many of your postings.

My congratulations to everyone involved and to the contirbutions that certainly enlighten the approach to a newcomer.

Coming to your issue, I have to say that importing items from the USA to Greece can be a costly and traumatic experience if performed on an individual private basis. A lot of beaurocracy involved. Best to leave it to a dealer.

You may not be aware, but there is an official dealer for Macs in northern Greece that should be able to help you out with your problems and issues.
I would suggest buying one locally, although there are not many used ones around. The Macs are only just beginning to catch the eye of the public here in Greeece. A new Mac costs considerably more than one in California because you have all the taxes to pay, for import, VAT at 18% and, of course, getting the boat here, in a container, is costly too.

CE marking is a must too, as some have pointed out in their postings.

Let me know if I can help further.

My greetings to all MacGregor Sailors! I am new to the 'club'. You will be hearing a lot from me in future.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

Yiasou Octaman, kalos orizate!

Congratulations on your pending 26M arrival, you will definitely get a lot of good tips from this site.

I think you very well may be the first resident Greek Mac owner around here. I've been here about 16 months and have never seen any posts from Greece.

One of the reasons I was thinking of finding a used 26X somewhere in the EC is because since I already own one, I would be familiar with it already. Of course, I guess there is not that much difference between a 26M and a 26X when you get right down to it.

Were you only interested in a new boat or did you also look around the used market? I'm also curious what you paid for a new 26M but I respect the fact that you may not want to give out that information. Also, do you know if the Mac dealer in Greece has email? Send me an email if you would prefer.

[Octaman]

Thanks Dimitri; my initial interest was in buying a used . Then I came across the new . I believe the new Mac is better suited for my specific requirements. Besides, it was just too tempting not to get the new model with the blue hull which I think makes the boat a lot prettier. Time will show how happy I will be.
Tell you what; in a couple of years' time when you're back in Greece visiting, I might just sell you my boat, assuming I'm ready to go on (just thinking aloud) - then again, you never know, . . . . I may become adicted and will just not let go of it (smile).
Will tell you what I paid for the new boat once the deal is done. Depends on several things and the Euro to Dollar exchange rate that keeps fluctuating.