Dismasted Under Sail! Hate it when that happens . . . .

[Mark Karagianis]

Saturday, 15kt steady W winds, 3-4' swell, 75 degrees, 4 crew, 3 hours Marina Del Rey to Palos Verdes Point, 3 hours back on a port tack close-hauled - all was nice until we heard a loud snap! I looked up but didn't see or feel anything, so what was that? We kept going. But then, the boat started getting sloppy. She kept wanting to head up. More and more opposite helm until we would stall, fall off, I'd straighten the helm, we'd gain speed, and then after a few minutes, the same thing would happen. It got worse! I've seen handling like this in heavy winds, but I looked around and conditions were still nice. I tried a broader reach but the same thing would happen! The heading-up frequency was getting shorter until finally I was going to give up; I put the motor down and started it. I woke up our guest who was sleeping on the starboard side of the cockpit so I could open the fuel tank vent (I have to close them when heeling to keep gas from spilling). She moved to the windward side of the cockpit, I fliped the seat back down, and THERE GOES THE JIB! Just as my brain was registering this, THE MAST CAME DOWN! It torqued down in an arc to starboard and somehow I ducked and the starboard spreader slammed into the cabin floor inches from my foot.



The port spreader hit the port lifeline and bent the rear stanchion. This was not good, but nobody was injured. I headed up into the wind and my crew helped haul the jib and main in. Because we were close-hauled, the sails didn't go in the water.



We made a distress call and the guests put on PFDs. After a few minutes of struggling, we had the situation under control and we canceled Vessel Assist. We were lucky in so many ways. First, no injuries. It was daylight, was had great conditions, and we were only three miles from MDR, straight downwind. We limped in, trying to control the main and keep it from opening. We lashed the mast to the rail, and used the main and jib sheets to tie up as good as possible. Three sailboats, one really large, asked if we needed assistance and a lifeguard boat shadowed us into the breakwater. Power boats roared by too fast as usual. It was like driving a car with a mattress on top, we all were holding sail to keep it under control. I can't imagine doing this in heavy winds and seas, with a long way to port. At night. In a storm. Man!

One side of the roller furler wire broke at first, when we heard the snap. It broke right at the nicro-press.



Then, for 10-15 minutes, the loop slowly expanded until only a tiny bit was holding up the mast. That's why the boat kept heading up; because the mast was coming back! Probably moved back 3 - 4 inches before it let go.

We got off pretty good: New roller furler, mast swivel base plate, starboard spreader, and mangled boom-to-mast hardware. bent stanchion, cosmetic damage to the seat from the rigging. Diane won't get back on the boat for a long time . . . (and that's NOT a good thing).





Hope the mast isn't bent, in this pic it sure looks like it.


I'm going to put a piece of stainless steel pipe over the new roller furler end - maybe this will keep the rig from buckling when I'm rigging and de-rigging. I leave the jib on the boat and tie it up in a giant S bend to the lifelines and mast. Since I trailer so much, I surmise that this is the reason for this failure. Hope that this doesn't happen to anyone else!

[Frank C]

Very sorry to read of this Mark, but very glad your problems are damage, not injuries!
Your story helps me categorize my earlier tale of woe into the "silliness" slot.

Roger's nico-pressed stays are the first Mac-feature to draw criticism. Svendsen's Rigger was highly deprecating when I took him my forestay for cloning, less 4 inches. Naturally, they used machine-swaged terminals at both ends - Total cost $50.

Did you guess your problem as bending fatigue ... Nico-corrosion ... maybe both?

[Gerald Gordon]

I'm glad I have an extra forward stay!!!

[beene]

No kidding.

Glad nobody was hurt.

I started using my spinnaker halyard as a failsafe after reading things like this here. I connect the halyard to the bow pulpit where the foot of the mast goes when trailering. It sits about 3 inches away from the furler and does not interfere with its use.

G

[LOUIS B HOLUB]

Im amazed at the break at the nicro-press. It seems that the furler puts frequent twists, bends, etc. on these, and the factory ought to get a "heads up" on this. This definately shouldnt occur with a new "M".

Thanks for the pics and details.

[Carl Noble]

Instead of bending your forestay rigging why not unbolt it from the hounds of the mast and then tie the whole unit along the mast. That's what I do when I store mine for the winter. It keeps the furler relatively straight and out of the way. I use the line from the spool to tie along the mast. I've never had any problems while trailering however I admit that I only travel about 15 miles to store the boat.

[delevi]

Thank God for no injuries.
This is a very interesting thread as far as the Mac rigging:

Roger's nico-pressed stays are the first Mac-feature to draw criticism. Svendsen's Rigger was highly deprecating when I took him my forestay for cloning, less 4 inches. Naturally, they used machine-swaged terminals at both ends - Total cost $50.

I actually had the same conversation with Svendsen's rig shop when ordering a new 5/32" forestay (2" shorter than stock) I brought in my old forestay wire and the guy said there is no way they would duplicate it. It was "sub-par and unsafe" and they wouldn't put their name behind something like that. My new one was made with the machine swaged terminals vs the loop rig. I did have to drill thorugh the hole of the terminal so the pin would fit, but still much stronger than stock. Trouble is, the shrouds are rigged the same way. At the time, I thought the rig shop was just going overobard a bit but after reading this, seems like they were right. It baffles me that Roger would rig his boats with unsafe rigging wire crimps. Now I may want to order new shrouds with the same setup as the forestay I had made. Approx $50/wire.. might wait a year. By the way, I had to replace my lifelines when I noticed excessive wear of the cables right at the crimp locatin. One line was held together by just a few strands of wire Replaced everything with 3/8" rope, except the cockpit line which are rubber coated 1/4" cable with higher quality pelican hooks. Man this thing is a money pit.

Mark, if I were you, I would call MacGregor and give them and earful. This could have ended up much worse than it did. Simply unacceptable! Good luck with repairs and convincing the admiral to get back on board. I know that can be a tough task after what you've been through.

Leon

[Frank C]

Part of this answer is on the factory website. Roger contends that vernier shroud adjusters are much safer than turnbuckles for a trailer boat. His point is that they're more durable for occasional kinks or bends during mast raising. I'll bet the factory would contend that Mark's forestay would have been easily surveyed to reveal a pending problem.

Machine swaged terminals aren't foolproof either. They can crack, especially due to internal swelling from wire corrosion. These cracks can be microscopic, yet still lead to failure from the weakened grip-collar of the terminal. Since a microscopic defect can lead to failure, they're not easily surveyed by the average-Joe. Not sure if machine swages are also prone to bending failure ... but I can visualize that sort of disclaimer on a MFG website.

OTOH, the vast majority of rigs have been standing for years & years, without even a glance for corrosion at the terminals. One might judge a trailer boat's rig as an enormous advantage, since all elements are subject to frequent exam ... no climbing req'd. Attorneys wouldn't shy away from either side of this debate.
No such thing as a simple solution ... only intelligent choices.

[marsanden]

Machine swaged terminals aren't foolproof either. They can crack, especially due to internal swelling from wire corrosion. These cracks can be microscopic, yet still lead to failure from the weakened grip-collar of the terminal. Since a microscopic defect can lead to failure, they're not easily surveyed by the average-Joe.

maybe this is the only solution to explain what is happened.
A 2005 forestay is absolutely too new for any kind of problems.
or.....or...masting and demasting it was bent times and times until it craked...

[LOUIS B HOLUB]

Mark, if I were you, I would call MacGregor and give them and earful. This could have ended up much worse than it did. Simply unacceptable! Good luck with repairs and convincing the admiral to get back on board. I know that can be a tough task after what you've been through.

I hope Mark's message goes to the Quality Control Dept. (if there is a Quality Control Dept--which seems doubtful), or at least delivered to Roger ASAP.
edit add: I hope the cause of this fore-stay failure is eventually solved and posted. And it would be interesting to hear the factory's input & resolution.

[argonaut]

I think it's hasty to indict Roger for using "inferior" hardware. Facts will probably bear out that properly assembled they are a safe termination for wire rope. This is the first snapped nicopress I've read anout and we're talking about what, maybe 7-9,000 boats out there using them.

Brian Toss is pretty knowlegable when it comes to rigging and he describes them as ugly, but strong and inexpensive, when properly installed. Nicopress Swaged Fittings He would know...

Fatigued metal will eventually snap. The problem with the more expensive machine swaged fittings, from articles I have read written by surveyors, is that you can't properly inspect them because the cable is trapped inside the fitting. Oxidation happens inside the crimp tube unless it's protected from water and air. Nicopress terminations type crimps can and should be inspected often.

This fitting looks to have broken directly under the lowest swage, and could have done so as a result of the wire rope having been weakened after it was bent, possibly during mast raising, or if it were improperly assembled. Since there's a loop there the wire in the loop should only carry half of the full load... so if it were load induced I'd expect the shroud to snap somewhere else, or the destroy the crimps. But both of the crimps appear to be intact. I'd suspect the stiff furler caused the loop to flex at it's weakest point, the top of the thimble, and over time the fatigued wire failed. Note too that for extra insurance , Roger puts two crimps on each fitting.

So, consider the source generally and I don't think there's consensus that stay adjusters are less safe than turnbuckles. Yes I've had riggers berate my nicopress fittings too, and it was in their financial interest to do that. JMHO.

All rigging, adjusters, pins, rings, etc, outta be eyeballed. Stainless, despite it's name, does rust. Salt water environments are more harsh on rigging and trailers than fresh.

[Paul S]

wow thats unreal!

I would assume that insurance should take care of it. The mast at a glance looks ok. There is always a bit of flex in it

How are the sails?

I would contact the mfr of the roller (as Macgregor does not make it) as well.

Note to self - check roller crimps before next sail!

[waternwaves]

that is a wear failure of the wire rope,

Not the Nicopress sleeves

[Hardcrab]

After Mark had loaded the boat to the trailer, I stopped by to have a look-see and a chat. I looked at the failure for any clues for inspecting my own rigging.
Once again, the "side" of the loop that broke was the long, running side, not the bitter or "tail" end. In fact, the "tail" end and both fittings looked pristine to me, in my limited opinion. All of the strands on the long, running side broke exactly flush exiting the"closest to the loop" nicropress fitting. You could not have done a much cleaner job with a cable cutter. (On edit, please, no inference intended or justified. Just trying to describe its looks as well as I can relate).
I didn't see obvious, visible corrosion. The still intact side of the loop did not show any signs of flexing or bending, it looks perfect in every way, leaving the nicropress fitting at the expected angle.
A normal loop is small and very stiff above the fitting, so whatever happens to one side should also happen to the other.

The bottom line to me is unnerving, in that no "apparent" visible clues were seen after the failure other than the break itself. Perhaps, some strands were already broken before the mishap that might have been caught on a "preflight".
But then, if that's true, what could cause any strands to break? Is a thimble normally used inside the loop?

[delevi]

that is a wear failure of the wire rope,

on an 05 Rig? Hmm. Not good.