Dissapointing 2005 26M

[baldbaby2000]

So you remember all those rust boxes from Japan as well as I do Eh Baldbaby?

Oh yea. Growing up in St. Paul, Minnesota where they throw salt out in the winter time like it's free, cars in the 70's would turn to junk rather quickly. Americans had their share of lemons: The Vega and Pinto were total junk. I don't even think it was possible to open the door of a Vega if you were pulled up to most curbs because the car was so low!

[delevi]

So you want a car comparison? Here you go:
In 2004, I bought a 2003 BMW X5 4.6 (high performance SUV) with a huge price tag. I got mine with 5k miles on it so I shaved off quite a few bucks off the huge price tag, but still $60k US at the end of the day. The best thing I did was buying the extended warranty. To date, I had three major failures. 1. Transmission completely died after just 50k miles. 2. Cooling system failure after 55k miles. 3. Master computer failure within the first year. Plus, various small problems in the first couple of years. We're talking about a Beamer that retailed for $80K! Fortunately, everything got fixed and it cost me $0, however, if you consider the value of my time, it cost me plenty. In contrast, my sister-in-law's Hyundai had zero problems for 5 years until she got into a crash and totaled the car. Bottom line, nothing's perfect, no matter how much you pay.

As for the Mac I had zero problems with the bare bones hull, which is essentially the product that Roger sells. I did have failures on most of the cheap hardware, sails, and daggerboard, all of which were replaced with high quality items. Oh yeah, had to replace the trailer as well. On the bright side, I now have a custom boat which is a joy to sail. The only leak I had was from the front hatch which simply involved replacing the gasket. All boats need work and attention. Stuff breaks all the time. That's just how it is. If you're not willing to deal, don't buy a boat. Sail boats tend to require more attention than motor boats. I think in your case, you were unfortunate to get involved with a dealer who won't take care of his responsibilities. Take it all with a grain of salt and enjoy life.

Leon

[baldbaby2000]

Stuff breaks all the time. That's just how it is. If you're not willing to deal, don't buy a boat. Sail boats tend to require more attention than motor boats. I think in your case, you were unfortunate to get involved with a dealer who won't take care of his responsibilities. Take it all with a grain of salt and enjoy life.

I think that sums it up. I moved up (or "down" some would say) from racing Hobies and Scows. Talk about stuff breaking. In my pre Mac days I've been dismasted 3 times from various hardware failures, resulting in breaking a total of two masts and one boom, punched a hole in a pontoon, not to mention my damaged self esteem....Hmmm, now that I think about it, maybe that explains why I have trouble getting crew!

Daniel

[They Theirs]

From: Trailer Sailor on the net

Another Corinthian Sailor (Delevi and Baldbaby 2000 sharing experience) by Bruce Whitmore offering an honest recap of his Mac, this includes reservations for return and the value of investment in time and money, and also includes a comparison to production quality vs. automobile. Includes solid assessments of MacGregor’s boating potential, and fabric worth.

[Catigale]

he really misses a lot of points imho

On depreciation - its true you will suffer more depreciation buying new than used, but the price point of the Mac means you will lose much less money than any other boat if you decide to step up.

Boats arent investments, if you buy new at 35k and sell in 4 years at 20k to step up, you have spent 4k per year for depreciation - pretty reasonable.

I question his statement that most owners keep the boat 3-4 years.

Complaining that you have to store your stuff in plastic bins is like saying your brand new car needs gas.

As someone who spent 3 weeks this summer on the Cape in my 2002 I will refute his 'lake boat only' claims with facts.

[Paul S]

The Mac is what it is. It sure did underwhelm me when we got the boat (kinda still does) with the fit and finish. The condition it was in (new boat) when it was delivered was dismal (you can read about it in the archives here)!

We had issues with just about all te dealer installed items - motor, motor linkage, nuts falling off the spreader, roller furler not installed correctly..... but if i knew then what i know now, i would have taken care of most of it myself.

That being said, there is no other boat that compares. They hold their value fairly well (which is why we bought new instead of a used x). The boat has it where it counts. Everything is adequet for the boat, if you want to 'upgrade' - go for it! you do not NEED to upgrade, bust most owners upgrade and add a lot of items. I am amazed at how flexible the hull is, after being rafted with other macs, when a lobster boat passed with a huge wake ..the hull flexed an insane amount with the fenders between the boats, but caused no damage. The engineering is good. Fit and finish still need a lot of attention, either from the factory, or the dealer. The hardware is acceptable. All hardware upgrades would cost $ bringing the cost of the boat up. I think the boat is more weather capable than most people give it credit for. Still I would not take it out in a monsoon!

You don't buy ANY boat thinking it is an 'investment'!!! If you bought a $200,000 boat and it went down in value to 100k in a few years.. you 'lost' 100k. On a mac, at 30k, you go to 15k, you 'lost' 15k! But you got a few seasons of experiences no one can take back, and that you can't put a price on

[tangentair]

In my humble opinion based upon may years of experience under a variety of circumstances, this thread is like trying to explain and justify a wife.....

[kmclemore]

In my humble opinion based upon may years of experience under a variety of circumstances, this thread is like trying to explain and justify a wife.....

Say, squire, are the blue-haired ones faster?

(Nudge-nudge, wink-wink, say-no-more, say-no-more!)

[They Theirs]

How interesting the same experience a decade prior of recurring opinion from early “X” ownership, comparing problems to auto-recall, quality of build, and marginal materials, etc, the post looks very much in line with today’s thread observing similar problems found on the newer Mac “M” model.

There is much to be learned from previous owner clarifications, first-rate Post ALX357.

ALX357 Wrote:
There is such a vast difference in our experiences with Mac's.
Could our poll format be adapted to give some kind of overview on this?
A 'Consumer Reports' sort of year-by-year evaluation would be great, but prob. beyond reasonable reach.

One can surely find some similar compliments and complaints from experienced “X” owners documented back in:

A) July of 1999 by “Todd Johnson”

B) May of 2001 by “Bruce Whitmore”

waltpm wrote:
Also I accidentally pulled the hose off the wire for the 600 lb. keel on my Mac 25.
It filled up to the cockpit floor but floated just fine. Two of us got in with an electric pump and had it dry in about 20 minutes.

How lucky to have all that excess speed and oversize outboard engine; read these 2 pages, and the post on page 2 from “JeffC”


Contains post from “JeffC” crossing channel under power in route to Catalina Island

Interesting discussion

[baldbaby2000]

I question his statement that most owners keep the boat 3-4 years.

Not only does he say that, but he says that "probably 35% of the owners will keep the boat long term." Where he comes up with these numbers I have no idea. Sounds like the typical debating technique: try to cite numberical statistics even if they're just made up. It's even better not to use round numbers; don't say 35%, say 35.7%.

To be honest, I'm looking to move to faster boat but so far, for a trailer sailor, I can't seem to find anything better for my needs than what I currently have.

Daniel

[tangentair]

Say, squire, are the blue-haired ones faster?

they are all to fast

But yes after reading those interesting opinions with a few facts tossed it, I am firmly convinced that I want a 54 ft tri hull with the new electric drives and a pair of ex hooter 32 yr olds as crew but I am really glad I have my Mila K even with only 50 to move her..

[Phillip]

I believe high price tags do not always equate to better quality.
Even in my business, the best profit increase come from not making my product better or giving them more for their money, but establishing a "name or image" that the buyer percieves "oh, I will only buy xyz" therby allowing me to increase the price.
That's why certain industries have manufacturers who establish 'brand names' or 'logos', and the boating industry is well up the list.
Raw Material imputs cost the same to every manufacturer...its just the depth of B/S applied after that makes the price difference

delevi:
interesting post re the Beamer.
I bought one of the first 3 series, new, about 3x the price of a larger Aussie car. Quite frankly it was a nightmare, cost me a heap over 3 yrs (1yr warranty then).
Then I got a Benz 350SE. The motor was bullet proof, but the price of parts (breaks, muffler etc) was enourmous, and things like the sun-roof failed.
Before all this, I got a Triumph Stag....believe me, that was a living nightmare just trying to prevent problems like loosing all cooling fluids.

So now I buy top of the range Aussie Ford or Jap.
Cheaper, plenty of after market parts, every idiot can work on them, and I buy the top of the range every time, and believe me, I get a much better quality car, much bigger, and a whole lot cheaper.

As I have progressed thru life I have come to the conclusion I do not want to be noticed, nor do I want to pose.
Then again, the Grandkids call me Grumpy-Bear behind my back.

Cheers
Phillip

[Bill at BOATS 4 SAIL]

I question his statement that most owners keep the boat 3-4 years.

Not only does he say that, but he says that "probably 35% of the owners will keep the boat long term." Where he comes up with these numbers I have no idea. Sounds like the typical debating technique: try to cite numberical statistics even if they're just made up. It's even better not to use round numbers; don't say 35%, say 35.7%.

83.958375629048573095887367347859567235634785956783989873648
589609703827612617839549569704989587823672758959000297845774
6098375869707895675099485687690099385486978947878`1828949050
39783477856949578676163275885691983857860989437578767190098
763518593655467565616783895960789871738549608787163748589697
69547365478678718173098972353858965346654785692300128978678
37267677485606068954787615636747785896906059084712788981998
47645665674956907089871778549887871776745254240089466555416
43856998098763475896090098176745656516679028490350958673%
of statistics are made up.



ModEdit: tooooo cute ~fc

[baldbaby2000]

Good one Bill!

[Scott]

On Err: Copy pasted from the Pub.

New should mean perfect

I was going to post re: this a day or so ago but got distracted, (Then I posted it in the Pub without re-reading the thread)

When I buy trucks I buy them with a minimum of 200k miles on them. They will run relatively trouble free until about 8-900k and after they hit 200k and the production bugs, recalls and redesigns have come through the system.

As well they are about 30-40 % cheaper to buy.