Need rocker stopper installation ideas Mac M26

[Skipper]

Just bought 8 orange rocker stoppers and two 8lb mushroom anchor weights from West Marine. The instructions on the stoppers say to just hang them overboard off a docking line cleat with the mushroom at the bottom end. But we're concerned about the drop line constantly rubbing against the gunwale and wearing through the gel coat since they will be used whenever the M26 is moored. We also figure that the cleat locations are so close to the centerline roll axis of the boat that their effect would be far less than if they were hung farther out e.g. on some sort of outrigger set up.

Our Mac 26M is kept on a buoy field on the east shore of Lake Tahoe in Zephyr Cove. Ain't called "Zephyr" for no reason ! We get 4-5' waves from 40+ knot westerly winds several times a season and 3' afternoon waves are routine, almost daily. So the Mac is a real "rock n' roller" ..without the music. It rocked so well last Labor Day that one of the shrouds snapped while it was on the mooring buoy when we weren't around- lucky the mast deck mounting held!!

We now have an anchor sail installed which has reduced the boat's swing when on the anchor buoy but the boat's rolling in those big waves is still swinging the mast from side to side as the boat rolls. (Oh, and we have a 16' mooring line..if that factors into the equation.)

We've looked at the permanently mounted Magma Rock 'N Roll Stabilizer outrigger system [not clear if 1) you'd use one or two of them on opposite sides of the hull 2) they are strong enough to leave deployed when the M26 is left unattended for days on the mooring buoy]. Pricey i.e. $500/stabilizer & outrigger ! but is this the best and only realistic answer?

or can we do something a lot more economical with the orange rocker stoppers and a piece of PVC pipe mounted perpendicularly across the deck with a set of stoppers/mushroom anchor snapped onto each end of the pipe? We'd appreciate any specific install ideas on how to attach such a pipe so that it can be installed on the the deck when we moor the M26 and easily removed & stored (as well as the weighted rocker stopper lines hung off each ends) when we go out sailing.

[tangentair]

I did a search on rocker stoppers and found 15 threads you might look at.
I am also curious about using them.
Are the cone type as effect (or effective at all) as the square flat models in shallow water? How deep must the top of the resisting surface be?
Because of the narrow beam, would it be more effect to rig a couple of 3 ft poles out from the chain plates (with a line up to the mast clipped to the mast raiser D ring) to get a better spread?
Would a fender on the side laid long ways instead of the normal vertical and then the line holding the rocker stoppers run over it provide adiquate chaff protection?

[baldbaby2000]

Regarding the mast swinging. Have you tried pulling the mainsheet tight so the topping lift pulls the mast back? I have running backstays on mine too that I tighten.

[Nautek]

if the mast is swinging so much then it sounds as thought the stays are too loose

Allan

[puggsy]

I was wondering why you would be concerned about the rocking and rolling when you are away from it at home?
If the shrouds are firm and secure, and if you have enough clearance from other boats, she can rock all she wants...You should only want to dampen it when you are camped onboard...and then you can use the boom and topping lift swung out over the side and keep an eye on it...no chance of chafing or gunnel wear. puggsy

[Currie]

I don't have any good ideas on stopping the rocking, but I sure would like to hear more about how & where the shroud broke. I'm guessing a nicopress termination let go (?). I agree it sounds like the shrouds are too loose. Do you have any pics of the failure? I find this really concerning.

~Bob

[Skipper]

The shroud wore through on the mast and snapped during one of Tahoe's high wind large wave weekends. We hadn't changed the previous owner's shroud settings. Before we bought an anchor sail, we had noted that the boat swung significantly and as it moved back and forth off alignement with the wind & waves, it rolled a lot with the upper mast moving in a wide arc. [Not to mention that the portajohn and a lot of items in the cabin were thrown onto the floor!] Also, we now leave the boat with the boom tied so it won't swing as the boat rolls.

After we replaced the shroud, we reread pages 11-12 of the owner's manual and adjusted the stay adjusters so the mast angle diagram, 1" bow, etc. was set up. We had a hard time getting the forestay (had to take apart the CDI furler) tighter than the original adjustment that came from the previous owner. We found that the shroud adjustments had to be just so, so that we could pull the forestay and get the clevis pin in on the bow.

Then we noticed that the mast swiveled to one side and stayed there, even during sailing. We ended up pushing it back to center and tying it so it can't move to either side (yea, and defeating the purpose of having a swiveling mast).

We're wondering if the mast isn't adjusted properly even though we did it according to the book.

Oh, our 2006 M26 didn't come with a topping lift or backstay (just upper and lower shrouds plus the furler forestay). We have a hydraulic boom vang.
------------------------------------
As for the 8 rocker stoppers w/10 lb mushroom anchors, we're going to try suspending them off the cockpit cleats on each side using a horizontally placed bumper to try and keep the line away from the hull. As our original posting said, we need an idea of how to engineer a pole to keep them out from the hull (short of buying expensive permanently mounted outrigger poles) but that's not happened yet. The easiest place to locate such a pole is across the cockpit but that will make it difficult and dangerous in big waves to board the boat from the dinghy..so that's not a great option. Tangentair....sorry but we don't know what "chain plates" are to fully understand your idea.

Somewhere we read that rocker stoppers may also contribute to reducing the boat's propensity to swing.... must be the high vertical sides of the M26 gunwales that seem to really catch the wind both at anchor and when sailing.

[K9Kampers]

...we don't know what "chain plates" are to fully understand your idea...

Skipper-

Chainplates refers to the attach point where the mast stays secure to the hull.

To expand on Tangentair's idea, I'm picturing a horizontal pole of suitable length to extend beyond both sides of the boat, across the cabin top jib tracks, secured by adapting jib cars to hole the pole. The outboard ends of the pole need also be supported by lines coming down from the top of the mast.

[March]

I experienced something similar in Florida four years ago. We anchored about 100 yards away from the shore for the night--didn't want to beach the boat on account of the tides. We had only one anchor at the bow. At night, the sea got a little rough--nothing dangerous, really, but the boat placed itself crossways from the breakers, because of the wind. The result was, for hours the boat rocked significantly (my guess was, the mast was swinging more than 40 degrees on either side of the vertical line) It sucked big time, but it never got really dangerous. The shrouds held just fine. This is a 26X, so the mast doesn't rotate--and it has a backstay. The only result was, the anchor (Danforth type) got buried so deeply in the sand that we had to use the engine in the morning to pull it out--and bent it in the process.

Lesson learned: always try to anchor in such a way as to ride the waves. If it hadn't gotten so late when we anchored, I would have run a line to the shore from the poop and have the poat point into the waves. Same thing when docking. Always make sure the waves will hit your prow. That will reduce the rocking. Slips are typically sheltered areas and the waves are significantly reduced therein. Moor in such a way that the waves hit the prow--never the transom (we had another bad experience in that respect, on Lake Michigan, but that's another story)

Keeping a boat on the water at the buoy in 40 kts winds doesn't sound like a good idea to begin with. After all, that's the advantage of a Mac. Pull her out of the water and keep it on a trailer until weather improves

I don't think that the rocker stoppers and mushroom anchors are the answer. The waves are still going to make them bob up and down even so. Some of the swinging might be reduced, but the best you can do it point into the waves (a sturdy second anchor aft will help) or get her out of the water

[Nautek]

It sounds as though where you are anchoring might not be a good place
I would be concerned that the rocker stoppers would put a lot of strain on other parts of the vessel that may not be able to handle the pressure for prolonged periods
It might be better to look for better anchorages

Allan

[tangentair]

Skipper, Just a few comments to add also

The shroud wore through on the mast … We hadn't changed the previous owner's shroud settings......we now leave the boat with the boom tied so it won't swing as the boat rolls. There are quite a few posts on shroud adjustment, failure and mast rake (tilt backward), you might consider searching and reading some of these. The wire rope doesn't wear out, there are other more common failures to look for so you likely had tension adjustment issues. Always secure the boom or it will swing and injure someone in rough or windy conditions

Then we noticed that the mast swiveled to one side and stayed there, …… defeating the purpose of having a swiveling mast). Lots of posts on this as well but at a minimum it needs "oiled". Thrust bearings, and rigging of lines to pull it over are mentioned as well.

We're wondering if the mast isn't adjusted properly even though we did it according to the book. see posts previously referenced

Oh, our 2006 M26 didn't come with a topping lift or backstay … We have a hydraulic boom vang. The 26M doesn't have a backstay normally, and the hydraulic boom vang probably also is a boom support for when the sail is down - the general purpose of the topping lift is to hold up the end of the boom when the sail is down but it has other uses and I would add one. Run a 1/4 or 3/8 line from mast head to the end of the boom and then add another foot or so. Add a clip so that you can clip the end of the boom and let the line hold the boom - above the bimini or at an angle to drain the water off the boom tent or parallel if you are using a wind vane sail.

…..Tangentair....sorry but we don't know what "chain plates" are to fully understand your idea. previously described, just an area that is reinforced. I also like the idea of a strong enough pole (or box channel) that slides inside a similar one so it will collapse down that could run across the bow area and get tied off to the life line stanchions.

must be the high vertical sides of the M26 gunwales that seem to really catch the wind both at anchor and when sailing. And trying to get it back on the trailer. .

Ron

[Skipper]

For currie, here is a picture of the break that occurred in our shroud. (I'm not sure about attaching pictures, but I'll try.)

!	tangentair:
	Skipper - I fixed the post so it would show the image without going to photobucket by adding {img} ...{.img} replace the {} with [] around the url

[tangentair]

For me that image is really mystifing. It looks like it snapped between the swags which would be snapping two individual wire ropes that should have been twice as strong as the single wire. Perhaps the single wire was able to stretch and these could not or there was a problem with the swags that crimped or twisted the two wires, but it looks really unusual to me. We snapped a side shroud on the keel boat and it broke right at the swag/compression fitting, there was no 1/2 inch or so of wire sticking out. Thanks for posting this.

[waternwaves]

not to go all forensic engineer on anyone.... (my current profession)

magnifying the photo shows a few clues.

1) The swaged terminal has deformed metal on two of the barrel bands (nonfitting crimp)
2)The thimbles have been deformed as the crimps were not installed in the proper location
3) Damage on several individual broken strands shows earlier mechanical deformation with associated crevice induced corrosion at each site.
4) each piece of the broken cable was being unlayed
5)The strands at the top of the thimbles are selectively stretched /opened,
6) Considerable bend in the tension angle of the wire cable that snapped.
7) Excess wear (rust and abrasion on the shackle from uneven load.


I am not Brion Toss ( a local rigging expert ...paid to make such examinations). However in analyzing many of these types of failures, most failures like this can be attributed to the following initial conditions.

Incorrect wire swaging/positioning
High/uneven tension.
Using the wrong swaging tool/crimp
Infrequent inspection

JMHO YMMV

[Kelly Hanson East]

Isnt that shackle wrong for the shrouds? Those thimbles would have a lot of side stress rigged like that.